fcp5 and hdv, any reports? at DVinfo.net

Joe Main · May 19th, 2005, 10:33 PM

So, for those of you that are working away with studio and hdv, what is your opinion? What is your workflow?
Thanks

Nate Weaver · May 20th, 2005, 11:33 PM

Well, I'm finally getting to test this out.

I'm digitizing from an FX-1 on a Dual 2.0 as I write this, it's going on in the background. I'll post in a few minutes when it's done and see how zippy it is.

Nate Weaver · May 21st, 2005, 11:46 AM

Well, they're right. So far it's pretty much just like cutting DV material, except without the firewire out to monitor.

I tried the multicamera functions with native HDV, it worked...6 streams at a time (albeit at about 6fps preview). It was dang cool.

So far, I can't find anything different about working in it except for the monitoring issues and print to tape issues (works great, but slow).

Ben De Rydt · May 21st, 2005, 12:54 PM

Does it use the regular log and capture window? Is the timecode captured?

I heard there was a posibility for scene split while capturing. Is this true?

Paul Cascio · May 22nd, 2005, 10:12 AM

Thanks Nate

Joe Main · May 22nd, 2005, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the info! So has anyone else edited and are they happy with the end result? What are the effects of rendering and recompressing to the end result?

Nate Weaver · May 23rd, 2005, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben De Rydt

Does it use the regular log and capture window? Is the timecode captured?

I heard there was a posibility for scene split while capturing. Is this true?

The log and capture window looks like a different software module for FCP...meaning it has all the functionality of the one we're used to, but built with the new Pro App GUI bits. Timecode is used, seemed to work fine. Also, I noticed that the timecode rolls when the tape is fast forwarded or rewound, so it looks like they found a way to get code from the separate TC section of the tape and are not extracting it from the MPEG stream like you talked about a while back.

Not sure what you mean about "scene split"...talking about break detection? My captures were split clips on camera breaks, even though I had it turned off. Someone in another forum mentioned that this is documented by Apple and is unavoidable. I'm guessing it has something to do with broken GOPs when the camera stops and starts.

Nate Weaver · May 23rd, 2005, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Cascio

Thanks Nate

I had a bit about 30 seconds long with maybe 10 cuts in it, some were very fast because I was clicking fast trying out the new multi-cam stuff.

It took about 2-3 minutes to "Conform HDV Footage" before writing to tape. Other than that extra progress bar, the print-to-tape process was just the same as it's always been.

Some of my cuts were very close together, so maybe it would have been faster if they were spaced more apart and not hitting so many consecutive GOPs.

Nicholas Natteau · May 23rd, 2005, 02:41 AM

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to add my input here. I found editing with HDV a breeze. As easy and as fast as editing with DV. The only drawbacks so far for me have been during capturing and output.

Capturing:

[1] I notice that there is only one good speed for fast forward with HDV. If you press the "l' key twice or 3 times on the keyboard to go much faster, the camera (Sony Z1) goes into fast forward mode but you don't see the footage zipping by in the Log and Capture window. If you fast forward by pressing the "l" key twice, then you'll see your footage fast forwarding in the Capture window. Also, whatever HDV footage you see in the capture window seems to lag 2-3 seconds behind what you see playing back in the camera's LCD screen (if you're using your camera as a playback deck).

[2] Unfortunately, clips get imported in groups corresponding to every time you pressed the record button. Strangely enough, FCP pro tech support informed me that although this was inevitable given the nature of HDV, they have not seen this happen with Final Cut Express! Weird.

Outputting:

[3] I put together a 2 minute film and it takes more than 45 minutes to export it out of FCP using Compressor. It baffles me why it takes so long to export. I've heard people say HDV takes usually three times longer to export than DV. If that were the case, it should me take roughly 20 minutes to export a 2 minute film, not nearly an hour.

It can't be my equipment because I'm using a PowerMac G5, dual 2.5Gig processor, with 3.5Gigs of Ram. The project is on a secondary 300Gig 7200rpm internal hard drive. It must something I'm doing wrong in the settings.

[4] I exported my HDV footage using Compressor's H.264 codec. After several unsuccessful attempts to "build" in DVDSP, I finally made it when I lowered the bit rate down to 8.4. I thought the bit rate could be as high as 29Mbps for an HD-DVD???

Anyway, I'd say, 90% of my HDV footage looked excellent when exported out of FCP5 with H.264.

However, I did notice a good deal of pixelization in a shot where I am walking with the Sony Z1 and filming the ground as I sprint. That problem even came up in a shot where the camera was not in motion, but instead on a tripod and filming a depth of focus change using the "shot transition" feature.

My question: Is the pixelation that I am seeing in that moving shot inevitable because my footage is HDV??? Would that pixelization issue still happen if I were using a Panasonic HVX 200 shooting in true HD 1080p???

Doug Thompson · May 24th, 2005, 01:31 PM

Just finished a rush job for a client using footage from a two-camera shoot (Z1 and FX1). Imported both into FCP 5 using the HVR M1U and found working with the footage pretty much like working with regular DV. Our new PowerMac is a 2.7 with 4.5 GB of memory and the RT Extreme worked seamlessly with effects. Finished cutting a 17-minute piece and printed to tape in DVCAM format.

Seems to be a solid product. Haven't run into a glitch yet, which is unusual with a latest release of FCP. Sure they will be some but none yet.

Next project: Two 30-minute pieces that we will export to DVD. Will report later.

Bryan Suthard · May 25th, 2005, 09:15 PM

Just got it today and loaded on my Dual G4 1Gig (Tiger).

44 minutes of capture from the FX1 was perfect.
Clips were captured by scene break automatically I did not expect but what I want.
And a clip on the canvas plays smooth at full frame rate even when expanded to full screen! (which is not even full resolution on my paltry Dell monitor)

I have not added effects but nonetheless is amazing! Very impressed.

Murad Toor · May 26th, 2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholas Natteau

[3] I put together a 2 minute film and it takes more than 45 minutes to export it out of FCP using Compressor. It baffles me why it takes so long to export. I've heard people say HDV takes usually three times longer to export than DV. If that were the case, it should me take roughly 20 minutes to export a 2 minute film, not nearly an hour.

It can't be my equipment because I'm using a PowerMac G5, dual 2.5Gig processor, with 3.5Gigs of Ram. The project is on a secondary 300Gig 7200rpm internal hard drive. It must something I'm doing wrong in the settings.

[4] I exported my HDV footage using Compressor's H.264 codec. After several unsuccessful attempts to "build" in DVDSP, I finally made it when I lowered the bit rate down to 8.4. I thought the bit rate could be as high as 29Mbps for an HD-DVD???

Anyway, I'd say, 90% of my HDV footage looked excellent when exported out of FCP5 with H.264.

However, I did notice a good deal of pixelization in a shot where I am walking with the Sony Z1 and filming the ground as I sprint. That problem even came up in a shot where the camera was not in motion, but instead on a tripod and filming a depth of focus change using the "shot transition" feature.

My question: Is the pixelation that I am seeing in that moving shot inevitable because my footage is HDV??? Would that pixelization issue still happen if I were using a Panasonic HVX 200 shooting in true HD 1080p???

Regarding item number 3, were you exporting H.264 (as you mentioned you were in item number 4)? Or were you referring to exporting to HDV in #3?

About your questions: it's hard to say why the pixelation is happening without knowing more about the shot. For example, if the ground has blown out highlights you could get blockiness from that. As for the HVX 200 question, nobody will know until the camera ships. Lastly, 720p, 1080i and 1080p are all true HD.

May 19th, 2005, 10:33 PM	#1
Joe Main Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: ny, ny Posts: 29	fcp5 and hdv, any reports? So, for those of you that are working away with studio and hdv, what is your opinion? What is your workflow? Thanks

May 22nd, 2005, 10:12 AM	#5
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Nate: How slow is print-to-tape compared to real time? Thanks Nate __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

May 22nd, 2005, 06:25 PM	#6
Joe Main Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: ny, ny Posts: 29	thank you Thanks for the info! So has anyone else edited and are they happy with the end result? What are the effects of rendering and recompressing to the end result?

May 23rd, 2005, 02:41 AM	#9
Nicholas Natteau Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 70	my first impressions of HDV and FCP5... Hello everyone, Just wanted to add my input here. I found editing with HDV a breeze. As easy and as fast as editing with DV. The only drawbacks so far for me have been during capturing and output. Capturing: [1] I notice that there is only one good speed for fast forward with HDV. If you press the "l' key twice or 3 times on the keyboard to go much faster, the camera (Sony Z1) goes into fast forward mode but you don't see the footage zipping by in the Log and Capture window. If you fast forward by pressing the "l" key twice, then you'll see your footage fast forwarding in the Capture window. Also, whatever HDV footage you see in the capture window seems to lag 2-3 seconds behind what you see playing back in the camera's LCD screen (if you're using your camera as a playback deck). [2] Unfortunately, clips get imported in groups corresponding to every time you pressed the record button. Strangely enough, FCP pro tech support informed me that although this was inevitable given the nature of HDV, they have not seen this happen with Final Cut Express! Weird. Outputting: [3] I put together a 2 minute film and it takes more than 45 minutes to export it out of FCP using Compressor. It baffles me why it takes so long to export. I've heard people say HDV takes usually three times longer to export than DV. If that were the case, it should me take roughly 20 minutes to export a 2 minute film, not nearly an hour. It can't be my equipment because I'm using a PowerMac G5, dual 2.5Gig processor, with 3.5Gigs of Ram. The project is on a secondary 300Gig 7200rpm internal hard drive. It must something I'm doing wrong in the settings. [4] I exported my HDV footage using Compressor's H.264 codec. After several unsuccessful attempts to "build" in DVDSP, I finally made it when I lowered the bit rate down to 8.4. I thought the bit rate could be as high as 29Mbps for an HD-DVD??? Anyway, I'd say, 90% of my HDV footage looked excellent when exported out of FCP5 with H.264. However, I did notice a good deal of pixelization in a shot where I am walking with the Sony Z1 and filming the ground as I sprint. That problem even came up in a shot where the camera was not in motion, but instead on a tripod and filming a depth of focus change using the "shot transition" feature. My question: Is the pixelation that I am seeing in that moving shot inevitable because my footage is HDV??? Would that pixelization issue still happen if I were using a Panasonic HVX 200 shooting in true HD 1080p???

May 24th, 2005, 01:31 PM	#10
Doug Thompson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Floyd, Virginia Posts: 99	Just finished a rush job for a client using footage from a two-camera shoot (Z1 and FX1). Imported both into FCP 5 using the HVR M1U and found working with the footage pretty much like working with regular DV. Our new PowerMac is a 2.7 with 4.5 GB of memory and the RT Extreme worked seamlessly with effects. Finished cutting a 17-minute piece and printed to tape in DVCAM format. Seems to be a solid product. Haven't run into a glitch yet, which is unusual with a latest release of FCP. Sure they will be some but none yet. Next project: Two 30-minute pieces that we will export to DVD. Will report later. __________________ Doug Thompson http://www.blueridgemuse.com

May 20th, 2005, 11:33 PM	#2
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Well, I'm finally getting to test this out. I'm digitizing from an FX-1 on a Dual 2.0 as I write this, it's going on in the background. I'll post in a few minutes when it's done and see how zippy it is.

May 21st, 2005, 11:46 AM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Well, they're right. So far it's pretty much just like cutting DV material, except without the firewire out to monitor. I tried the multicamera functions with native HDV, it worked...6 streams at a time (albeit at about 6fps preview). It was dang cool. So far, I can't find anything different about working in it except for the monitoring issues and print to tape issues (works great, but slow).

May 21st, 2005, 12:54 PM	#4
Ben De Rydt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 139	Does it use the regular log and capture window? Is the timecode captured? I heard there was a posibility for scene split while capturing. Is this true?

May 25th, 2005, 09:15 PM	#11
Bryan Suthard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampa, FL United States Posts: 135	Just got it today and loaded on my Dual G4 1Gig (Tiger). 44 minutes of capture from the FX1 was perfect. Clips were captured by scene break automatically I did not expect but what I want. And a clip on the canvas plays smooth at full frame rate even when expanded to full screen! (which is not even full resolution on my paltry Dell monitor) I have not added effects but nonetheless is amazing! Very impressed.