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Old January 28th, 2010, 09:35 AM   #1
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FCP7 no realtime audio dissolves?

Hey guys,

I'm a bit new with final cut, so be gentle, please.

Even with RT settings set to unlimited, I get unrendered audio cross fades not playing in realtime with wave files. Instead, Final Cut just beeps at me. It's incredibly annoying, and I can believe that it's not capable of playing them in realtime.

Is that really the way it works? Tried to find an answer in the manual and online, but no go.

And on another note, I'm always finding that Final Cut is very sensitive to how you work, in the sense that I'm constantly doing things I didn't intend. It's making me paranoid!

Yesterday, I somehow added dissolves to every transition on a two hour sequence. When I noticed, it was too late for undo, and I had to remove each one manually. The "overwrite without transition" trick wouldn't work, either.

And I'm constantly deleting things by mistake. If you mark in and out, then shift-delele to remove a section of a sequence, you have to make sure a clip isn't selected somewhere else. Otherwise that gets deleted instead of your marked region. I wish clips would be de-selected automatically after you were finished moving them or whatever. Leaving them selected seems to serve no purpose. You are forced to click to deselect them in order to do the next thing.

Sigh...can't wait till I'm up to speed so I can avoid these mistakes better.
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Old January 28th, 2010, 10:51 AM   #2
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It depends on the wav files you are bringing in. Final Cut is not happy with highly compressed audio files and wants to render them to the timeline's standard. I get 48k wave files from an audio house and they behave just fine for me.

I suggest Switch, the free version works great, and convert the files to aif before bringing them in.
Switch Plus Audio Converter Software Download Page
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Old January 28th, 2010, 11:37 AM   #3
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Yeah, I knew about the mp3 problem, but these are 48k waves files from a Zoom H2. I didn't think they would pose any trouble.

So you are saying this is most likely normal behaviour?
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Old January 28th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #4
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Make sure your audio and your sequence settings match.
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Old January 28th, 2010, 04:01 PM   #5
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My wife uses a Zoom but I don't think I've ever used the files outside of an audio program. Hmm..... worth a test at some point.
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Old January 28th, 2010, 05:57 PM   #6
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Final Cut I believe works best (natively) with AIFF over wave. Wave is normally fine though, but I tend to find AIFF works with the RT architecture a bit more smoothly.

Otherwise, as has been stated you need to check your sequence settings. There is also an audio quality setting for playback under system settings playback options that you may need to check.

Depending on your computer, and what resources are being used elsewhere, (e.g what codec you are editing) there seems to be a number of interconnected things that can affect realtime performance.
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Old January 28th, 2010, 06:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo View Post
Yeah, I knew about the mp3 problem, but these are 48k waves files from a Zoom H2. I didn't think they would pose any trouble.

So you are saying this is most likely normal behaviour?
Absolutely NOT normal behaviour. Something's wrong with your source files or sequence settings (i.e. they don't match). I regularly use eight+ tracks of audio, with cross dissolves sprinkled liberally about, and NEVER hear beeping for non-rendered transitions. Naturally, it's all 48kHz 16bit AIFF format, and this is on a Leopard, Early 2008 MacPro.

Not being confrontational here, just letting you know that it can easily be done without beeping (as you suspect it can).

You don't have any speed changes or other filters on the audio, do you?

BTW: Have you checked: Final Cut Pro menu: User Preferences: General Tab: Real-time Audio Mixing = how many tracks?
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Old January 28th, 2010, 08:02 PM   #8
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As well, WAV's and FCP don't play well. COnvert them to 48KHz AIFF's.
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Old January 28th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #9
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Is your sequence preset a long GOP MPEG format like HDV or AVCHD? THAT will do it as well.

The "unpredictability" of FCP you are experiencing is PROBABLY due to not quite understanding context: if you applied transitions to all your clips, the entire timeline was selected/highlight. The other issue that can bit you is: WHICH WINDOW IS ACTIVE? FCP REALLY works on an "active window gets the command" modality ESPECIALLY with keystrokes like "Make Marker"
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Old January 29th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #10
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Hi guys, thanks for your replies. Always appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
Make sure your audio and your sequence settings match.
Both set at 48K 16bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Parkes View Post
There is also an audio quality setting for playback under system settings playback options that you may need to check.
Set to unlimited RT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Mayer View Post
Not being confrontational here, just letting you know that it can easily be done without beeping (as you suspect it can).

You don't have any speed changes or other filters on the audio, do you?

BTW: Have you checked: Final Cut Pro menu: User Preferences: General Tab: Real-time Audio Mixing = how many tracks?
Didn't take it as confrontational at all. There is a compressor/limiter effect on the file. Real time audio mixing is set to 8 tracks, low quality (faster) playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Is your sequence preset a long GOP MPEG format like HDV or AVCHD? THAT will do it as well.

The "unpredictability" of FCP you are experiencing is PROBABLY due to not quite understanding context: if you applied transitions to all your clips, the entire timeline was selected/highlight.
It's just straight DV. Nothing rough.

I know that the unpredictability is mostly due to my own inexperience with the program. I knew that I had selected everything by mistake and added dissolves everywhere through my own error. It just seems like Final Cut is less forgiving than Avid, which I am more used to. Maybe when I was learning Avid I was in the same situation, but it's hard to remember now.

I think the audio beep must be a combination of wav, not aiff, plus the compressor effect hitting the dissolve. The compressor plays realtime unrendered, but not through the transition.

You guys are the best!
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Old January 29th, 2010, 11:13 AM   #11
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IMHO (and in your opinion too I believe - you've diagnosed your own problem!): it's the compressor/limiter filter in conjunction with the dissolve. Just take the compressor off and try it.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 06:35 PM   #12
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Vito: I moved from Media Composer to FCP v1.0.2 and as I recall I had issues with FCP doing "what I asked it to" instead of "what I INTENDED to do" as well. I described FCP as a cross between Media Composer and Premiere back in the day as it was trying to appeal to both ends of the spectrum (this is back in the day when an AVID was $40k MINIMUM and Premiere was little more than a multimedia assembler/editor).
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Old January 30th, 2010, 09:38 PM   #13
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Shaun, I could give you a two page list of issues that I find frustrating with Final Cut. I'm trying to get past it, as it's obviously a capable and highly professional program. Otherwise, it wouldn't be in such widespread use.

Maybe it will be a one page list after I get better at the interface, and know the program better. Obviously the biggest problem is the learning curve at the moment. It's trying, however, as I'm sure I'm twice as fast in Avid. It's getting better, but it's slow progress.

For some reason, I never felt like this learning Avid. I guess my mindset fit how it's designed to work. But I'm determined to be proficient in Final Cut. I lost a couple of jobs in the past cause I didn't know it, and I figured the writing was on the wall. So I bought a MacBook Pro and Final Cut Studio. Upgraded that recently to Studio 3. That was worth it just for the new speed change options. Having to work around the sequence rippling whenever I wanted to change a clip's speed was driving me bonkers!

I just built a new Core i7 computer, too, and will upgrade to Media Composer. Best of both worlds...
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Old January 30th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo View Post
Having to work around the sequence rippling whenever I wanted to change a clip's speed was driving me bonkers!
I get that. I've just gotten into the habit of placing those clips on another sequence and making the mods there, copying and pasting back into the original. Kludgy but it works. I ALWAYS have a sequence called Werk (the German version of "work") open at ALL times for little things like that.

I'd suggest it's actually easier to learn your FIRST NLE than adapting to your second (and third and...).

I was a reasonable Media Composer editor 12 years ago. Then I learned FCP. Shortly thereafter I needed to start editing in Media100 and then several years later stepped into a job where Premiere was on my workstation. Well, I'm only useful in FCP and MC, with my bias being FCP as I have thousands more hours in. Is it perfect? NO! Was it a great investment back in the day? HELLZ YEAH! I've made more money as an FCP editor than as a MC editor and shooter combined.
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Old January 30th, 2010, 11:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
I get that. I've just gotten into the habit of placing those clips on another sequence and making the mods there, copying and pasting back into the original. Kludgy but it works.
I did that. I also like putting the clip on a work track. Lock all the others and change speed. Unlock and use the clip.

Or just at the end of the sequence, so when it ripples, who cares.

Or match frame the clip. Change the speed in the viewer. Insert the section you want of the altered clip to your timeline. Change speed of master clip in the viewer back to normal if you want.

Quote:
I'd suggest it's actually easier to learn your FIRST NLE than adapting to your second (and third and...).
Before trying Final Cut, I wouldn't have agreed. I figured I knew one NLE pretty good, the next should be easier. Kind of like learning languages. But I think you're right.

I learned Avid and Premiere. Final Cut by far has been harder for me. Not sure why.

One of the first projects I did in Final Cut, somehow the sequence setting was set to HDV. But my media was DV. When I noticed, I switched the setting back. At the end of the project, I made a test DVD and was horrified to see what looked exactly like wrong field order in the finished product.

After much nail-biting, research and cries for help, it turned out that Final Cut had added a switch fields effect to every clip when I added DV material to the HDV timeline. But it's not smart enought to remove them when the sequence setting changed. That was fun to go into hundreds of clips one by one to remove those!

But I don't mean to turn this into a bash Final Cut thread. Every NLE has its strengths and weaknesses. You gotta work with the tools you need. Learn them or perish in the business.

Always a pleasure, Shaun. Still think you should have moved this way instead to give me a kick in the @ss.
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