23.98 or 24p for 24fps clips exported from animation program? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Final Cut Suite
Discussing the editing of all formats with FCS, FCP, FCE


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 10th, 2010, 03:35 AM   #1
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
23.98 or 24p for 24fps clips exported from animation program?

Ok, this is kinda weird, so bear with me.

I'm making animated short that I'm creating with a software called anime studio. When I'm ready, I will export 1920x1080 HD from this program using image sequences, that is, each frame of the movie a PNG/BMP/etc.

Since FCP doesn't deal with image sequences directly I will be creating ref movies in QT pro, and dropping THESE into the FCP timeline.

Question is, should my FCP sequence settings be 23.98 or 24p if the project is 24fps, as exported from the animation software? If I look at the clip settings/format info on one of the QT ref movies to an image sequence, it'll say 24fps, but on the other hand, I'm making a product for mostly NTSC use. Should I make the timeline true 24 fps/24p and worry about 23.98 when doing final exports for various destinations? Thanks.

P.S. yes I know premiere pro handles image sequences, no this will not influence me to use it on this project.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,615
You don't need an image sequence in FCP so unless there's another reason to export one why not just make a 24p QuickTime in ProRes or whatever codec out of Anime Studio and save a step?
__________________
William Hohauser - New York City
Edit/Camera/DCP production/Animation
William Hohauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York NY
Posts: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
but on the other hand, I'm making a product for mostly NTSC use.
Then go with 23.98. 23.98 exists because NTSC is 29.97, not 30fps.
Arnie Schlissel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #4
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
Ok, I should have elaborated on this. . .I've been advised by other animators, pros, unlike me, that it's the way to get the least compressed, raw form of data/signal of the animation program, and since it's offered, I'll take it.

Plus, I"ve personally witnessed trying to export a high res etc. QT movie NOT working right. . .a shot right at the beginning of my movie features a character against a gradient background sliding quickly into the frame, and when I export a movie, time and time again several frames of that fast moving gradient background will "glitch up" 'til it stops moving. Doesn't do this as an image sequence.

Once I have it edited an am able to export any lower format as well as full HD, the pain in my bum will have been worth it.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2010, 09:55 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,615
Export in "Animation" codec. That is uncompressed and will have to be rendered in FCP. That's what I do in After Effects. You can also export an alpha channel in Animation codec.
__________________
William Hohauser - New York City
Edit/Camera/DCP production/Animation
William Hohauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #6
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
What does the alpha channel do for me?


And are you saying if export animation, to make a movie or still do my image sequence?

Regardless, because of the way this program works, there is NO 23.98. . .so my animation software always exports 24 fps whether it's an image sequence or a movie. Given that, should the FCP sequence be true 24?
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2010, 07:58 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 444
If you want to work in a 23.98 timeline, I'm pretty sure you can import the image sequence into Quicktime Pro, save the that as a reference quicktime or export to whatever codec you want as a self contained quicktime, and then edit in Final Cut. You should have the option to import the image sequence at 23.98 when you import into Quicktime Pro.

Whether you want to be 24fps or 23.98fps is all about deliverable and sound.

If you've timed your animation to a soundtrack that is 24fps (instead of synced to 23.98) in your animation program, then it will drift out of sync... But as your deliverable sounds like it will be HD it's definitely going to be 23.98.

I'd originate at 23.98 unless you were fairly certain you were doing a film out
__________________
www.afterglow.co.nz
Craig Parkes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2010, 09:53 AM   #8
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
Soundtrack was recorded in logic, and I'm timing the animation to each individual line of dialogue as I go along, each line being exported from FCP (in the 23.98 timeline) as an AIFF cause it's the only format I can import into the animation program.

In FCP, I bring in low res proxy files of each scene in the movie, back into the same 23.98 timeline, and move each line/clip of audio to sync it up with these low res proxy files.

My plan is to sync everything, do some minor editing, and when it's "perfect", render out the HD movies or image sequences, then do a "reconnect media" and tell each clip to refer to the new HD version of itself.

So 23.98 then?

The low res proxy movies I've been exporting and working off of are 24fps (not 23.98). . .is this going to cause a sync issue down the line? Timeline right now is 23.98, but clips are 24.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2010, 08:46 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 2,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass View Post
What does the alpha channel do for me?


And are you saying if export animation, to make a movie or still do my image sequence?

Regardless, because of the way this program works, there is NO 23.98. . .so my animation software always exports 24 fps whether it's an image sequence or a movie. Given that, should the FCP sequence be true 24?
An alpha channel does nothing unless you are using FCP to composite animated layers. Zero percent black becomes the alpha channel. I just used it for a trailer this week and I didn't need to play with the key filter.

Experiment with an Animation codec movie, I think you'll find the quality to be excellent.

23.98 is a drop-frame frame rate. It has to do with keeping time. No frame is missing. The audio is not affected at all so you can use the files without worry. I would work in 24p and drop the sequence into a 23.98 timeline at the end if it's going for broadcast.
__________________
William Hohauser - New York City
Edit/Camera/DCP production/Animation
William Hohauser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #10
Slash Rules!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 4,723
It's already in a 23.98 timeline. . .so I should leave it as is? Again, If I use image sequences I can make 'em 23.98, but if I export a movie from the animation software it's necessarily 24.

I guess when I reach that stage I'll do a test with that troublesome clip as a animation codec hd movie. . .if that shot still glitches up, I'm going image sequence all the way.
Josh Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 444
Josh - go with image sequences anyway, Once you have exported your image sequences make quicktimes in Quicktime pro. That gets around your animation software's inability to export 23.98 and should give identical results as if your program did have that capability (it would use the Quicktime engine to do it, so doing it in Quicktime again is really no big deal apart from added time.)
__________________
www.afterglow.co.nz
Craig Parkes is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:38 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network