FCP 6 + AG-HMC40 + 720p60 video question. at DVinfo.net

Tony Harris · May 6th, 2010, 10:21 AM

Hi all,

I just got my HMC40 and am experimenting with the 720p60 setting (it will record 720p60 native) - on importing the footage into FCP I see some stuttering during a slow pan.

At first I was thinking it was the way I might have been panning, but it wasn't a real fast pan, and I wasn't recording in 24p which will have more of a problem with jumping/stuttering with a fast pan.

So then I was thinking it was something in the way I logged and transfered. I looked and tried re-transferring with Advanced Pulldown checkmark removed (it was on by default) and the stuttering actually got worse (weird since the source is native 60p). I looked at the clip information, and it shows ProRES 422 1280x720 59.94fps which AFAIK is correct for 720p60.

Has anyone else had this type of problem? Is there something I'm doing wrong with FCP? I know it may sound silly - but this is the first HD camcorder I've purchased that supports native progressive recording modes (let alone being able to do native 1080p or 720p) so I'm really not sure if I have a setting wrong somewhere. The timeline is set the same as the footage (well, it should be, it complained when I dropped the footage in and asked if I wanted to set the timeline to the same settings as the footage and I selected yes).

Until now, I've been editing 1080i so I'm new to the progressive format for editing and am wondering if I've "missed" something in my workflow. Also, I was wondering if it had to do with the version of FCP I have? I am only using FCS2 (contains Final Cut Pro 6) and it's up to date - is there an issue with FCP 6 and 720p60 footage?

Thanks in advance!

Robert Lane · May 6th, 2010, 07:50 PM

I don't have an explanation as to why but for some reason there seems to be some form of goofy compatibility issue with Panny cams and slow pans/dolly moves - anything that moves laterally in the frame - upon ingest into FCP. I've seen this behavior on both P2 cams and AVCCAM models. I used to see it in EX1 footage also when the camera was first released but after the last updates to FCP6 those XDCAM stutters went away.

I've put in several trouble tickets with Apple about this issue in the past year with no resolution, it always just fades away into nothingness with Apple Pro tech support. That too, is a mystery.

Interestingly enough I've taken the same problematic footage and ingested it into Premiere Pro (both CS4 and the CS5 beta I'm still working with the Adobe team with), M100 version 12 and even a friends install of Avid with absolutely no hiccups, but that same exact clip ingested into FCP stutters at the same exact point every-time.

What I would suggest is putting in a formal trouble ticket with Apple tech support yourself; maybe if they had more than a single source showcasing the problem they will find a fix.

Wish I had better info.

Tony Harris · May 6th, 2010, 08:50 PM

I probably will when I can get some more sample footage so I can show it's a repeatable thing.

Did you find any camera settings that worked better then others?

Robert Turchick · May 6th, 2010, 08:56 PM

turn off the OIS on the camera. It fights any slow movement especially from a smooth platform like a tripod, dolly or jib.
Before I knew about this, I got the same symptoms. It's not FCP.
I've used the HMC40, HVX200, HMC150, HPX170 with fantastic results in FCP 6 and 7.(can you tell I likey Panny?)

Tony Harris · May 6th, 2010, 09:47 PM

Here's the thing - I was hand holding lol.

I was testing various things and moving around a lot so I wasn't using a tripod. I always turn off OIS when on a tripod :).

If it is OIS related, that's interesting - maybe makers of camcorders need to take a lesson from the way dSLR image stabilization is handled where many designers have multiple modes - usually one of them to handle up down shake so it won't attempt to compensate for the left/right/left motion of panning (ie: Nikon VR II has an active mode and a normal mode).

I'll have to try again with OIS off... my hands just aren't terribly stable ;)

Thomas Smet · May 7th, 2010, 09:11 AM

How does the prores file play outside of FCP such as in the quicktime player? It is odd that this would be a problem for some cameras and not others considering the footage gets transcoded to prores anyway.

I also have a HMC40 which I recently got but I have only used 24p material in FCP so far. I will try to test some 60p footage this weekend.

Tony Harris · May 7th, 2010, 09:56 AM

I'll have to check the master ProRES footage again when I get home - I know I checked it, but I don't remember what I thought about it (I have other things preoccupying my attention - like needing to get a new roof :( ) - I'm not convinced that it isn't something that I did to cause an issue with the footage.

I'm planning on getting an assortment of footage to test more completely at different settings. I'm hoping it's just something I set / did wrong.

Thomas Smet · May 7th, 2010, 01:59 PM

I forgot I brought my camera to work today because I have to do a little shoot tonight. I just shot some 720p 60p footage in my office and did a log and transfer to Prores LT and it plays perfectly in FCP 7. I don't know if this was something fixed in FCP 7 compared to FCP 6 but 60p footage seems to work perfectly.

Note. I am playing this off of the internal drive in my 21.5" Imac with a dual core 3.06 GHz cpu and Nvidia 9400 gpu. I lug this system with me to work everyday. It isn't the best Mac but it slices through prores LT from the HMC40 like butter.

May 6th, 2010, 10:21 AM	#1
Tony Harris New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hohenwald, TN Posts: 20	FCP 6 + AG-HMC40 + 720p60 video question. Hi all, I just got my HMC40 and am experimenting with the 720p60 setting (it will record 720p60 native) - on importing the footage into FCP I see some stuttering during a slow pan. At first I was thinking it was the way I might have been panning, but it wasn't a real fast pan, and I wasn't recording in 24p which will have more of a problem with jumping/stuttering with a fast pan. So then I was thinking it was something in the way I logged and transfered. I looked and tried re-transferring with Advanced Pulldown checkmark removed (it was on by default) and the stuttering actually got worse (weird since the source is native 60p). I looked at the clip information, and it shows ProRES 422 1280x720 59.94fps which AFAIK is correct for 720p60. Has anyone else had this type of problem? Is there something I'm doing wrong with FCP? I know it may sound silly - but this is the first HD camcorder I've purchased that supports native progressive recording modes (let alone being able to do native 1080p or 720p) so I'm really not sure if I have a setting wrong somewhere. The timeline is set the same as the footage (well, it should be, it complained when I dropped the footage in and asked if I wanted to set the timeline to the same settings as the footage and I selected yes). Until now, I've been editing 1080i so I'm new to the progressive format for editing and am wondering if I've "missed" something in my workflow. Also, I was wondering if it had to do with the version of FCP I have? I am only using FCS2 (contains Final Cut Pro 6) and it's up to date - is there an issue with FCP 6 and 720p60 footage? Thanks in advance!

May 6th, 2010, 07:50 PM	#2
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	I don't have an explanation as to why but for some reason there seems to be some form of goofy compatibility issue with Panny cams and slow pans/dolly moves - anything that moves laterally in the frame - upon ingest into FCP. I've seen this behavior on both P2 cams and AVCCAM models. I used to see it in EX1 footage also when the camera was first released but after the last updates to FCP6 those XDCAM stutters went away. I've put in several trouble tickets with Apple about this issue in the past year with no resolution, it always just fades away into nothingness with Apple Pro tech support. That too, is a mystery. Interestingly enough I've taken the same problematic footage and ingested it into Premiere Pro (both CS4 and the CS5 beta I'm still working with the Adobe team with), M100 version 12 and even a friends install of Avid with absolutely no hiccups, but that same exact clip ingested into FCP stutters at the same exact point every-time. What I would suggest is putting in a formal trouble ticket with Apple tech support yourself; maybe if they had more than a single source showcasing the problem they will find a fix. Wish I had better info. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

May 6th, 2010, 08:56 PM	#4
Robert Turchick Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,389	turn off the OIS on the camera. It fights any slow movement especially from a smooth platform like a tripod, dolly or jib. Before I knew about this, I got the same symptoms. It's not FCP. I've used the HMC40, HVX200, HMC150, HPX170 with fantastic results in FCP 6 and 7.(can you tell I likey Panny?) __________________ The older I get, the better I was!

May 6th, 2010, 08:50 PM	#3
Tony Harris New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hohenwald, TN Posts: 20	I probably will when I can get some more sample footage so I can show it's a repeatable thing. Did you find any camera settings that worked better then others?

May 6th, 2010, 09:47 PM	#5
Tony Harris New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hohenwald, TN Posts: 20	Here's the thing - I was hand holding lol. I was testing various things and moving around a lot so I wasn't using a tripod. I always turn off OIS when on a tripod :). If it is OIS related, that's interesting - maybe makers of camcorders need to take a lesson from the way dSLR image stabilization is handled where many designers have multiple modes - usually one of them to handle up down shake so it won't attempt to compensate for the left/right/left motion of panning (ie: Nikon VR II has an active mode and a normal mode). I'll have to try again with OIS off... my hands just aren't terribly stable ;)

May 7th, 2010, 09:11 AM	#6
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	How does the prores file play outside of FCP such as in the quicktime player? It is odd that this would be a problem for some cameras and not others considering the footage gets transcoded to prores anyway. I also have a HMC40 which I recently got but I have only used 24p material in FCP so far. I will try to test some 60p footage this weekend.

May 7th, 2010, 09:56 AM	#7
Tony Harris New Boot Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hohenwald, TN Posts: 20	I'll have to check the master ProRES footage again when I get home - I know I checked it, but I don't remember what I thought about it (I have other things preoccupying my attention - like needing to get a new roof :( ) - I'm not convinced that it isn't something that I did to cause an issue with the footage. I'm planning on getting an assortment of footage to test more completely at different settings. I'm hoping it's just something I set / did wrong.

May 7th, 2010, 01:59 PM	#8
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I forgot I brought my camera to work today because I have to do a little shoot tonight. I just shot some 720p 60p footage in my office and did a log and transfer to Prores LT and it plays perfectly in FCP 7. I don't know if this was something fixed in FCP 7 compared to FCP 6 but 60p footage seems to work perfectly. Note. I am playing this off of the internal drive in my 21.5" Imac with a dual core 3.06 GHz cpu and Nvidia 9400 gpu. I lug this system with me to work everyday. It isn't the best Mac but it slices through prores LT from the HMC40 like butter.