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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:53 AM   #1
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Second monitor for CC with FCS3???

Greetings.

I am getting set to purchase a pretty nice (to me) editing system- 6 or 8 core mac, ton of memory, 5870 GC, four HD's, 27" Apple display when they become available, and a Matrox MXO Mini. This should be a bit more responsive than my current single processor G5 1.8!!!, plus I'll be able to actually install FCS3 and PS CS5. I will only be working with HD material. (HDV for now)

The last link to all this is a second monitor that I would be using to connect from the MXO Mini HDMI out, for color grading and so on. And I'm dizzy.

First off, I'd love a great monitor made specifically for the purpose of editing, but that is going to run me more than the $500.00 or less than I can budget for now.

My only requirements are that the thing be larger than 18" and 30" or smaller. I know that I can do some sort of calibration with the Mini, which is great.

My first question for you experts (and I mean that) should I be looking at HDTV's or monitors sold for computer use? And what is the difference? (This part of the question you don't have to answer if you are short on time).

I've noticed that the smaller TV's (if that is the correct way to go) are mostly 720p. I read somewhere it's best to use a full 1080p monitor.

I've read terms like "Rec 601 & 709", whatever the heck that is, wide gamut? (Again, if you are in a hurry, don't bother with this one)

Is there something out there worth buying in my price range? I'm real excited about this set up mentioned above.

Thank you so much for your help on this, and everything in the past. This has truely made the process of figure out what to get and why really much more enjoyable.

Cheers.

Jonathan
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 12:51 PM   #2
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I would look at computer monitors with HDMI inputs. Many HDTV sets have poor viewing angles as the manufacturers expect them to be watched from at least a few feet away. Desktop editing is frequently set up to be done close up to the monitors so the viewing angles have to be wider. This is very important for color correction.
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Last edited by William Hohauser; August 23rd, 2010 at 03:09 PM. Reason: forgot the simple words in a sentence
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 01:35 PM   #3
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William,

Thanks for that. So this at least steers in the right direction HDTV vs. regular computer monitor/display.

Computer monitor it is. I think this is less $$$ than if I went with an HDTV too. Cool.

If this is the case, am I correct to assume that any physical size (whatever fits on my desk) would be OK?

Does brand even matter? I know I need the HDMI input to the monitor. Come to think of it, I've never heard (or looked for that matter) of computer monitors that have HDMI inputs. Do most of them have that now?Have I been away for too long???? I've seen small-ish displays listed for under $200.00US.

So if anyone has a displays that they absolutely love or even hate, I'm all ears. Agian color grading my main event on this.

Thanks so much.

Jonathan
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 03:23 PM   #4
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Many computer monitors now come with HDMI connections so you should be able to find a good one. Check the monitors forum: The View: Video Display Hardware and Software Forum at DVinfo.net , there's plenty of ideas there.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 04:03 PM   #5
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Both of my Dells have HDMI (2405 and 2408) I tried running with one monitor on my Matrox MX02 and the other for apps but I'm so used to having the real estate from two 24" monitors that I bought a 32" Sony LED for CC and viewing "reality"
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Old August 27th, 2010, 01:56 AM   #6
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Just don't expect 'Accurate' colors with the Mini.

I have a 20" Dell Ultrasharp(2007), 21" Ultrasharp(2010), 32" Sony Bravia HDTV, 17" Panasonic BT-LH1710W HD-SDI, Eizo CG243W, Matrox Mini, BM Decklink Extreme 3D, i1 Display calibrator and soon an Aja Kona LHi. And the Mini is sitting on a shelf after two days of use because I couldn't stand the issues I had with Premiere - some of which appears to happen only when 2 monitors are connected to the video card.

I can tell you from experience that in no possible way can the Mini make any 'inexpensive' monitor produce accurate colors. Matrox's marketing department has done a great job making people think that their Mini somehow works magic to make an inexpensive display into something for accurate CC/CG.

FYI, Rec 601 is mainly used in SD and 709 is HD. Provideocoalition.com has good articles on the subject. When I edit and output to SD, I have my Eizo calibrated to 601 and when I output in HD, my Eizo is set to 709; so, I can see the correct colors while editing.

One important difference between 'consumer' and 'pro' LCDs is hardware calibration to the various color gamuts (601, 709, DCI...).

If you use a 'wide gamut' LCD like the Dell Ultrasharp 24", it must be calibrated using a 'real' calibrator like the Spyder or i1, not to mention, any monitor being used for video needs to be calibrated.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 03:07 AM   #7
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have a Spyder for calibration and I think the MX02 does a decent job with FCP. Certainly gets closer than the out-of-the-box setup on the Bravia. Is it to be trusted for broadcast? No. But for grading I learned using scopes anyway so the monitor just serves as a quick reference.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 07:35 AM   #8
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Hey Steve,

... the Mini is sitting on a shelf after two days of use because I couldn't stand the issues I had with Premiere

Can you expand on these issues for me. I tend to use FCP rather than Premiere but I do have a copy here (CS 5) that I can test with.

I can tell you from experience that in no possible way can the Mini make any 'inexpensive' monitor produce accurate colors.

Agreed absolutely, that's a load of marketing nonsense ... rubbish monitors are never ever going to give satisfactory results, but I'd argue that the MXO2's do make the best of whatever monitor you have available (cheap or otherwise) and from experience I can say that if its a halfway decent monitor then the Matrox boxes will definitely get pretty close ... and much much closer than devices that lacks output calibration tools.

Best
Andy
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Old August 27th, 2010, 10:09 AM   #9
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Robert thanks for that info.

Steve, we must be neighbors, almost?

My expectations are not high but I am hoping that the mini set-up will at least be a step up form doing basic CC on a display just connected to card in computer. Until I can afford a broadcast monitor I'll see how this $450.00 wager goes.

Thanks again.

Jonathan
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Old August 30th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #10
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Andy, here are some of my prior posts about the Mini:

"1) Yes, it does require Matrox presets in order to use the Mini for monitoring
2) Opening a sequence with Matrox preset but NOT having the Mini powered on causes Premiere and AE to crash. Thus, you will always need the Mini and can't share or move projects to other computers that don't have a Mini.
3) In Premiere, with the Source monitor selected and then selecting the Program or timeline causes a 3-5 second delay for the Mini to catch up and in the mean time, you can't do anything else. This delay also happens when going from the timeline/program to source monitor.
4) In Premiere, you lose the ability to easily adjust size and position in the Program window. Half the time, I never saw anything in the Program window while using the Mini.
5) With the Mini turned off, AE crashes upon starting."

But, read this thread where I wrote the above NeoHD and Matrox mini and Sony EX-1 and PP project presets

Another Mini user explains the issues that he has.
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #11
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Ack... well thats quite a list Steve, I can appreciate your disappointment :-(

I do think it's important to remember tho, that Jonathan is specifically asking for recommendations with regards to an FCS3 setup, not for Premiere (not that you were suggesting otherwise) and the long list of issues you present appear to be specific to CS4. Still disappointing tho.

Are you a PC based Premiere user or Mac? If Mac, then the drivers for CS5 are due at or after IBC (October according to their presser), so might be worth reinvestigating after that point. If PC then it might already be worth checking out the latest drivers ... there was a lot of fuss around the 3.0 release for PC (around June) as together with the MAX hardware (if you have it) it's incorporated a lot of the Matrox RT capabilities.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 08:49 PM   #12
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Hi Guys.

Well here is where I am.

I got a HP LP2475w LCD monitor for my set up (second display). I've got the Matrox Mini working with no problems, with the exception that I had to set the monitors ratio to 1:1. It took a while to figure out how to get audio to my external speaker system, but that has ben solved.

I have to say that I am pretty impressed. I've already used the calibration tool in the Matrox System preferences and that went well following the manual.

Right now I am experimenting how to bring video in from a Canon HV30 to FC and working in a Pro Res 422 timeline.

Tommorow experimenting with live capture using camera>HDMI>Matrox>FC Capture.

I need to sleep some day.

Jonathan
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Old August 31st, 2010, 11:25 PM   #13
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Steve, you have described your experiences with the Matrox Mini & Adobe CS5 on Windows. With respect your problems with that setup have zero relevance to the current discussion of the Matrox Mini with FCP on the Mac.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 11:50 PM   #14
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Nigel, with respect, keep on thinking the Mini is some 'great' device.

I simply replied to someone's question about my issues. BUT, I began my comments about the Mini with NO mention of my problems with it - only that it in no absolute way does it give 'ACCURATE' colors for critical grading.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 02:56 AM   #15
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Steve, you clearly have strong feeling about the quality of the device when used in a completely different situation than that under discussion. Your opinion of the device also appears at odds with people who actually have experience of using the MX02 with FCP on the Mac. I don't have personal experience of the MX02 Mini but was considering buying one & would prefer to take the advice & opinion of someone actually using it in the same setup that I have.
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