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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:45 PM   #1
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Frame rate support of I/O cards?

I've been looking at inexpensive I/O cards, simply for monitoring only. Eventually I'll get into a higher end card like a Kona 3G, but that's going to have to wait. For now I'm looking at picking up a blackmagic intensity pro, to output to an ISF calibrated panisonic plasma screen.

My question is, in a program like FCP or Color, if I am working with a frame rate that isn't one of the supported rates of the card (like 30p1080p) does that mean I won't be able to monitor that video? Or does it do some sort of inboard conversion to display that?

Anyone know anything about how that works? I plan on working in 24p for personal projects, which is supported, but I have some stuff I'm doing that is 30p.

Thanks for any advice.

I wanted to ad, I know this isn't an ideal setup for broadcast work, but that's not what I need it for, I just want as good as I can afford (at the moment) for web based and DVD.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #2
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

It really depends on the 30p in question. If its 30p in a 60i wrapper (sometimes with a notaion 30psf) then the card may or may not support it depending if it supports psf playback, otherwise you may need to put the file on an interlaced timeline and let finalcut handle the conversion from progressive to interlace (this won't create motion artifacting because each field will just be one half of each progressive frame.

However, as 30p is not a supported broadcast format, and is really only viewable as a deliverable on the web (all dvds are technically interlaced signals, just some dvd players can convert an interlaced signal with progressive content to a true progressive signal and play that back on a tv that accepts a true progressive signal.) it begs the question why would you need to monitor in true progressive on your tv as it offers no answers in terms of technical deliverable questions.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 04:17 PM   #3
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

Forget a card. Just get a good computer monitor if you don't have one already. You are better off purchasing a monitor calibrator, like a Spyder3Elite, than getting a broadcast video card that might not support the frame rates you are using.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 10:42 AM   #4
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Hohauser View Post
Forget a card. Just get a good computer monitor if you don't have one already. You are better off purchasing a monitor calibrator, like a Spyder3Elite, than getting a broadcast video card that might not support the frame rates you are using.
I did exactly this. I was in the market for a good monitor. I bought a Dell U3011 (it's huge, I love it). Just ordered the Spyder3Elite. My 19 inch will work perfect for a bin monitor, and with the spyder3, I'll be able to studio match the 2 monitors. I've looked at the osd on my 19 inch samsung, and it has total color control also. I'm assuming with the Spyder3, I can calibrate in monitor, and just not at the video card. I watch B&H's demo for it, and it looks like it gives the option to calibrate in monitor. William, would you comment on whether that is the case or not?

I'll still be picking up an I/O card, but for now, this allows me to save for the kona 3G I really want.

Jeff
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Old March 20th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #5
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

The Spyder will calibrate each monitor individually by taking control of the calibration software that comes with the MacOS. You can match the monitors to each other but it may be better to set your main work monitor for the ideal color space for editing. The Spyder in advanced mode will give you a number of broadcast, photo and print color spaces to choose from.
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Old March 25th, 2011, 04:30 PM   #6
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

When you say "ideal" color space for editing, would that be the NTSC setting? I received my spyder and ran the calibration, and have experimented a bit.

Thanks as always for all your help and advice.
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Old March 26th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #7
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

Oh man, I'm away from my office but it was a preset for "601 something 709" which is the digital television color specs. It works great. "NTSC" is OK but is really for standard definition broadcast not HD.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 09:48 PM   #8
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

you know one of the nice things about a better I/O device like the matrox mini or MXO2 is that it handles color space conversion on board.... takes some load off the CPU or GPU depending on app, it also means you can run dual displays on your CPU instead of just one.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 10:27 PM   #9
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Hohauser View Post
Forget a card. Just get a good computer monitor if you don't have one already. You are better off purchasing a monitor calibrator, like a Spyder3Elite, than getting a broadcast video card that might not support the frame rates you are using.
With FCP, this is the last thing you want to do for accurate color. Apple issued a statement a while back that the Canvas and desktop display cannot be used for accurate color.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 11:04 PM   #10
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Re: Frame rate support of I/O cards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Troiano View Post
I did exactly this. I was in the market for a good monitor. I bought a Dell U3011 (it's huge, I love it). Just ordered the Spyder3Elite. My 19 inch will work perfect for a bin monitor, and with the spyder3, I'll be able to studio match the 2 monitors. I've looked at the osd on my 19 inch samsung, and it has total color control also. I'm assuming with the Spyder3, I can calibrate in monitor, and just not at the video card. I watch B&H's demo for it, and it looks like it gives the option to calibrate in monitor. William, would you comment on whether that is the case or not?

I'll still be picking up an I/O card, but for now, this allows me to save for the kona 3G I really want.

Jeff
The 'in monitor' calibration you are thinking of is called 'hardware' calibration where the settings are stored within the monitor so the monitor can be connected to any device and retain the same settings. However, 'hardware' calibrated monitors for computer use start at over $1000 such as Eizo and some NEC at the low end. 'Total' color control means a lot more than any Samsung or Dell Ultrasharp monitor can provide.

Here is an example of 'Total' color control from a $2400 Eizo CG243W (which I own):
Brightness, Contrast, Black Level, Independent 6-Color Control, Gamma, Temperature, Saturation, Hue, Gain.

Also, hardware calibrated monitors always come with their own software and transmits data via USB back and forth to the monitor. For my Eizo, it uses their ColorNavigator software and I use an i1 to calibrate it.

Another benefit of some higher-end monitors is 24p - 24Hz/48Hz support.

For HD color space, it is Rec 709 and for SD Broadcast, it is Rec 601 aka SMPTE-C. NTSC is not used anymore and has been replaced by SMPTE-C. SMPTE-C RGB
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