16.9

Cameron Poole · June 3rd, 2011, 11:53 PM

I shot some footage yesterday at an intersection looking down from a bridge and my tripod wasn't quite level, so I thought I could level the horizon line in FCP by tilting the footage slightly to the left but it moves the black bars also, so I have to reshoot the scene.

Colour correction, the smoke effect, all these are outside the bars also - and if I want to enlarge/zoom in on footage then of course the bars dissapear out of shot.

Is there a way to edit footage without affecting the bars without shooting or editing in a different aspect ratio?

R Geoff Baker · June 4th, 2011, 05:57 AM

So you shot in Standard Definition with a black bar overlay to give the impression that you shot widescreen?

In post drop an image of black bars on top of your source after you've applied the filters and effects you want to use -- if you are rotating the source image you will also have to zoom it a little to prevent the original bars from intruding in the new image -- there are masks available that conform to the 16:9 appearance that you can use on a 4:3 image, or you can build one yourself pretty quickly.

HTH

GB

Rickey Brillantes · June 4th, 2011, 08:40 AM

Just get rid of the black bars, tilt and zoom it in a little bit, that will fix it without the hassle of re-shooting it again, but in doing this you loose a little bit in resolution. So it's always better to get the proper level while on the shoot.

Cameron Poole · June 5th, 2011, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Geoff Baker

So you shot in Standard Definition with a black bar overlay to give the impression that you shot widescreen?

I shot it in the default 16.9 on a Panasonic AGHMC-152 so it's in widescreen and the black bars are there weather I like them or not, I don't mind! But they do not seem separable from the footage so I think i'll just have to reshoot it unless I change my settings in FCP so that the viewer is widescreen, is there a way I can do that?

It's practice footage as I'm about to start work on a website video for a local food delivery company and it's my first job (shooting and editing) since investing in professional equipment and software so I need to make sure my settings are correct before I start editing it.

The last job I did was just shooting footage for an editor in Switzerland and the default camera setting was the same as what he requested so I'm confident I'm shooting in the right setting.

I just didn't expect the black bars to be affected by colour correction and all the other effects.

R Geoff Baker · June 5th, 2011, 06:29 AM

You shouldn't have black bars at all -- you shot 16:9, there are no bars and no room for bars -- so something in your description is off. Have you imported 16:9 HD footage into an SD 4:3 timeline? Why are you looking at anything in a 4:3 frame?

You don't need to reshoot anything if you shot 16:9 HD -- so take us through step by step what you shot, how you imported it, what your FCP settings are ...

Cheers,
GB

Cameron Poole · June 5th, 2011, 06:29 PM

I've never changed my camera settings in the 5 months I've had it, my FCP settings upon Easy Setup view are:

Format: (all formats)
Rate: (all rates)
Use: Custom Setup

Sequence/Capture preset: DV NTSC 48 kHz
Device Control Preset: Firewire NTSC
Playback Output Video: Digital Camera Desktop Preview - Main
Playback Output Audio: Firewire DV
Edit to Tape/PYV Output Video/Audio: Same as Playback

I discovered that pressing command 0 brings up a screen settings option but no idea which one I should be on. However my settings for that are as follows:

Frame Size - 680 x 480 NTSC 4:3
Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Anamorphic 16:9 (BOX UNCHECKED)
Field Dominance: None
Editing Timebase: 30

QUICKTIME VIDEO SETTINGS

MPEG-4 Video

I have not yet mentioned that my Quicktime quality when full screen is questionable so I also need to find out what the optimum setting is, though for small screen it looks fine.

Hope this is the info you need, thanks for your assistance Geoff.

R Geoff Baker · June 5th, 2011, 08:29 PM

Well, your project settings are Standard Definition and DV codec -- neither of which you are shooting.

If I assume your transfer from your camcorder is proper, then you should have files on your HDD that are both High Definition and in a different codec (sorry, I'm not certain what codec your camcorder uses) -- in which case you can simply drag one of the clips onto a new timeline & FCP will say something like 'would you like to change your project settings to match your source material?' and you can say 'yes' and all will be good.

If you've done something odd on capture so that your source material has been converted to SD DV ... well, we'll have to step through how you are getting your material from your camcorder to your computer.

But you shouldn't be downgrading your material to SD DV, you shouldn't be working in 4:3 with 16:9 source, and your output is compromised because of that.

Cheers,
GB

Rickey Brillantes · June 5th, 2011, 09:10 PM

Double post!

Bart Walczak · June 6th, 2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameron Poole

Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Anamorphic 16:9 (BOX UNCHECKED)

Check this box to get proper 16:9 in DV.

Cameron Poole · June 6th, 2011, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Geoff Baker

Well, your project settings are Standard Definition and DV codec -- neither of which you are shooting.

If I assume your transfer from your camcorder is proper, then you should have files on your HDD that are both High Definition and in a different codec (sorry, I'm not certain what codec your camcorder uses) -- in which case you can simply drag one of the clips onto a new timeline & FCP will say something like 'would you like to change your project settings to match your source material?' and you can say 'yes' and all will be good.

If you've done something odd on capture so that your source material has been converted to SD DV ... well, we'll have to step through how you are getting your material from your camcorder to your computer.

But you shouldn't be downgrading your material to SD DV, you shouldn't be working in 4:3 with 16:9 source, and your output is compromised because of that.

Cheers,
GB

When my camera is connected, the files are unreadable. There's many folders and sub folders and the footage is in MTS and CIF files, the former of which I think are the ones I have to convert using the Wondershare video converter and I just convert these straight to Quicktime - this is another thing I need to establish, if I am doing the right thing and using the best settings. I have converted to Mp4 and the quality seems the same but when I click on the files it auto opens up MPEG Streamclip which is annoying.

I understand this is not a case of straightforward question and answer and I'll probably have to visit a fellow editor who I don't know that well but who can show me first hand. That said, I am very grateful of the advice so far.

Cameron Poole · June 6th, 2011, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Check this box to get proper 16:9 in DV.

It stretches it, and though it doesn't solve the issue with the bars it does look more cinematic. It seems I can make this change at any time so i'll probably do a version with and a version without for the website video and see which one looks better.

R Geoff Baker · June 6th, 2011, 06:02 AM

Sorry to say it sounds like your problem starts with your transfer from your camcorder. A few minutes with those that use the same system will likely lead to the answer -- I won't volunteer here as it is not a camcorder I use ... But I am quite certain you are doing it wrong!

You are shooting an AVCHD format with a 16:9 ratio, you should be able to use log and transfer to bring that in and edit, perhaps you will need to convert to an interim format like ProRes -- but there is no reason to be working in SD DV.

As for checking the 16:9 box, that is intended for anamorphic 16:9 video shot in 720x480. If the video 'looks stretched' ... something is wrong again. 16:9 video from a 720x480 source looks perfectly normal and unstretched, it simply occupies a frame that is 16:9 instead of 4:3 -- but it assumes that the source (or in your case, however accomplished, the transfer) correctly matched the shooting format with the clip format.

Cheers,
GB

Cameron Poole · June 6th, 2011, 06:17 AM

Thanks again Geoff, at least I know for sure I'm doing something wrong. When the project is complete i'll post it up in the 'show your work' section.

June 3rd, 2011, 11:53 PM	#1
Cameron Poole Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Posts: 212	16.9 - Keeping behind the bars I shot some footage yesterday at an intersection looking down from a bridge and my tripod wasn't quite level, so I thought I could level the horizon line in FCP by tilting the footage slightly to the left but it moves the black bars also, so I have to reshoot the scene. Colour correction, the smoke effect, all these are outside the bars also - and if I want to enlarge/zoom in on footage then of course the bars dissapear out of shot. Is there a way to edit footage without affecting the bars without shooting or editing in a different aspect ratio?

June 4th, 2011, 05:57 AM	#2
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars So you shot in Standard Definition with a black bar overlay to give the impression that you shot widescreen? In post drop an image of black bars on top of your source after you've applied the filters and effects you want to use -- if you are rotating the source image you will also have to zoom it a little to prevent the original bars from intruding in the new image -- there are masks available that conform to the 16:9 appearance that you can use on a 4:3 image, or you can build one yourself pretty quickly. HTH GB

June 4th, 2011, 08:40 AM	#3
Rickey Brillantes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 309	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars Just get rid of the black bars, tilt and zoom it in a little bit, that will fix it without the hassle of re-shooting it again, but in doing this you loose a little bit in resolution. So it's always better to get the proper level while on the shoot.

June 5th, 2011, 06:29 AM	#5
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars You shouldn't have black bars at all -- you shot 16:9, there are no bars and no room for bars -- so something in your description is off. Have you imported 16:9 HD footage into an SD 4:3 timeline? Why are you looking at anything in a 4:3 frame? You don't need to reshoot anything if you shot 16:9 HD -- so take us through step by step what you shot, how you imported it, what your FCP settings are ... Cheers, GB

June 5th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#6
Cameron Poole Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Posts: 212	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars I've never changed my camera settings in the 5 months I've had it, my FCP settings upon Easy Setup view are: Format: (all formats) Rate: (all rates) Use: Custom Setup Sequence/Capture preset: DV NTSC 48 kHz Device Control Preset: Firewire NTSC Playback Output Video: Digital Camera Desktop Preview - Main Playback Output Audio: Firewire DV Edit to Tape/PYV Output Video/Audio: Same as Playback I discovered that pressing command 0 brings up a screen settings option but no idea which one I should be on. However my settings for that are as follows: Frame Size - 680 x 480 NTSC 4:3 Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Anamorphic 16:9 (BOX UNCHECKED) Field Dominance: None Editing Timebase: 30 QUICKTIME VIDEO SETTINGS MPEG-4 Video I have not yet mentioned that my Quicktime quality when full screen is questionable so I also need to find out what the optimum setting is, though for small screen it looks fine. Hope this is the info you need, thanks for your assistance Geoff.

June 5th, 2011, 08:29 PM	#7
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars Well, your project settings are Standard Definition and DV codec -- neither of which you are shooting. If I assume your transfer from your camcorder is proper, then you should have files on your HDD that are both High Definition and in a different codec (sorry, I'm not certain what codec your camcorder uses) -- in which case you can simply drag one of the clips onto a new timeline & FCP will say something like 'would you like to change your project settings to match your source material?' and you can say 'yes' and all will be good. If you've done something odd on capture so that your source material has been converted to SD DV ... well, we'll have to step through how you are getting your material from your camcorder to your computer. But you shouldn't be downgrading your material to SD DV, you shouldn't be working in 4:3 with 16:9 source, and your output is compromised because of that. Cheers, GB

June 5th, 2011, 09:10 PM	#8
Rickey Brillantes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ontario, California Posts: 309	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars Double post! Last edited by Rickey Brillantes; June 5th, 2011 at 09:15 PM. Reason: add text

June 6th, 2011, 06:02 AM	#12
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars Sorry to say it sounds like your problem starts with your transfer from your camcorder. A few minutes with those that use the same system will likely lead to the answer -- I won't volunteer here as it is not a camcorder I use ... But I am quite certain you are doing it wrong! You are shooting an AVCHD format with a 16:9 ratio, you should be able to use log and transfer to bring that in and edit, perhaps you will need to convert to an interim format like ProRes -- but there is no reason to be working in SD DV. As for checking the 16:9 box, that is intended for anamorphic 16:9 video shot in 720x480. If the video 'looks stretched' ... something is wrong again. 16:9 video from a 720x480 source looks perfectly normal and unstretched, it simply occupies a frame that is 16:9 instead of 4:3 -- but it assumes that the source (or in your case, however accomplished, the transfer) correctly matched the shooting format with the clip format. Cheers, GB

June 6th, 2011, 06:17 AM	#13
Cameron Poole Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: London Posts: 212	Re: 16.9 - Keeping behind the bars Thanks again Geoff, at least I know for sure I'm doing something wrong. When the project is complete i'll post it up in the 'show your work' section.