!!!Help with JVC CU-VH1/FCP Studio Workflow!!! at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Final Cut Suite
Discussing the editing of all formats with FCS, FCP, FCE


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 16th, 2006, 11:57 PM   #1
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
!!!Help with JVC CU-VH1/FCP Studio Workflow!!!

I have just recently purchased a Mac G5, with FCP Studio, a JVC CU-VH1 HDV deck and a 300GB removable drive with the intention of posting episodes of a new TV series.

I was told that we'd have no real problems getting this footage in. But the reality has become quite the contrary. Needless to say we have a fast-approaching broadcast date.

I would love to hear from anyone using a similar setup to assist me in getting back on schedule.

I have approx 10 hours of footage shot in 720-60 mode on the JVC HD100U Camera.

I've tried importing the footage via the deck above using Log and capture using the 720P easy setup but there is no video or sound. The timecode works but nothing usable is captured. Generally, FCP give me a cannot connect error. I've made sure the the decks firewire out is set to mpeg.

Using the Apple intermediate codec it capture's seemingly good clips, (look and scrub in viewer) but as soon as they're dropped on the timeline, the video goes bright green and nothing can be done.

We found that if we take the clips and import them into ImovieHD then pull the clips from the media directory back into FCP they will work. Trouble is, the import process with ImovieHD takes a long time. With all the supposed "support for HDV" seems to me this process should be a bit simpler.

I discovered that by loading the clips into media manager I can take the AIC files and re-process them to work. But 60min. of footage take 5 HOURS to convert!

Is there a way to get FCP to "see" the VH1 deck and properly encode footage using the log and capture? If not then at least is there proper settings to allow the AIC to work directly after capturing?

I'd really like to be able to preserve the original tape's timecode information for our future editing and transcription references.

One other note regarding the JVC deck, we set different TC hour numbers during production in camera to identify the tapes but the on-screen display can only show the minutes, and this prevents our loggers from getting proper time codes. Is there a firmware update or anything that can be done to display all the timecode fields.

OK, that's enough for now. I hit the high points.

I'm counting on you guys! Please Help!

-Ryan
  Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2006, 05:14 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 539
#33 Kona HDV workflow

Shane's Stock Answer #33: Working with HDV non-natively successfully:

John Thorne of AJA wrote this great article, and is the best way I can think of for working with HDV:

http://www.aja.com/pdfs/AJA_whitepaper_HDV.pdf
Shane Ross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2006, 05:40 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 344
720-60?

Is this 60p? I was unaware it shot at that speed. If it does, then I think the CU-VH1 only supports 720 30p. Can the CU-VH1 playback 24p? I know it'll playback 1080i but not record it. It only records up to 720 30p, again...
Stephen Finton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2006, 07:17 PM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Finton
720-60?

Is this 60p? I was unaware it shot at that speed. If it does, then I think the CU-VH1 only supports 720 30p. Can the CU-VH1 playback 24p? I know it'll playback 1080i but not record it. It only records up to 720 30p, again...
The camera always lays down 720P60 even though it only captures 720P24 or 30P. I believe it lays down 720P50 when capturing 720P25.

Steve Mullen has speculated that the original 720P30 on HD1 and HD10 may have also actually used a 60P stream. Maybe he can chime in on this.

Anyway, the point it that the CU-VH1 is listed as a compatible product for the HD100 in all recording formats. However, it will not display 24P or 25P images on the LCD screen or analog outputs.


Ryan, for 720P24 workflow for Mac and FCP, read this:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=56015

then read this:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57357

The imovie method will work fine for M.O.S. 720P24, but you need to use Cinema Tools to conform it back to 23.98 fps.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 12:06 AM   #5
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
I'm not looking for a 24P workflow

The CU-VH1 plays the footage, and is visible in it's built-in screen and outputs through the s and composite/component cables fine.

My issue is getting the 720-60 stream into FCP with minimal "processing" using Imovie or Media Manager as well as preserving the original tapes' timecode value on the new clips.

Tim is correct, the VH1 is supposedly compatible with all the H100U recording formats.

Again, I'm not looking for a 24p solution, All my footage (30+ hours of it now) is show H100U 720-60

Keep em coming...I'm anxiously waiting!
  Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 12:08 AM   #6
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
HDVxDV

I'm not familiar with the HDVxDV program, is this necessary to get all of this work and is this another piece of software that I need to purchase in order to allow FCP to do something that they claim it can natively?

What's the scoop?
  Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 12:54 AM   #7
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Johnson
I'm not familiar with the HDVxDV program, is this necessary to get all of this work and is this another piece of software that I need to purchase in order to allow FCP to do something that they claim it can natively?

What's the scoop?
Not if you shot in 720P30 mode. Is this the case? If the deck is playing the footage on the LCD screen then you must have used 720P30.

FCP5 does fully support 720P30 HDV mode. I know it works, I've captured directly from the camera in HDV mode with log & capture.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 12:55 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Johnson
The CU-VH1 plays the footage, and is visible in it's built-in screen and outputs through the s and composite/component cables fine.

My issue is getting the 720-60 stream into FCP with minimal "processing" using Imovie or Media Manager as well as preserving the original tapes' timecode value on the new clips.

Tim is correct, the VH1 is supposedly compatible with all the H100U recording formats.

Again, I'm not looking for a 24p solution, All my footage (30+ hours of it now) is show H100U 720-60

Keep em coming...I'm anxiously waiting!
I would imagine then that there is a menu setting for the CU-VH1 that allows you to possibly switch between outputs. Is there a menu button anywhere?
Stephen Finton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 01:16 AM   #9
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
The footage is in 720-60, ...Not 24, not 30.

There is no way in the deck to change the firewire output. I do not have a Kona card and I do not have the HDVxDV program.

I don't have the (rented) camera to check exactly what the setting were when we shot and my camera op is on location, so I'm trying my best to describe this.

Now, this doesn't make sense at the surface, cause it appears that there's no such thing as 720-60, or at leaset FCP doesn't want to see it, but the following is from JVC's specs and describes the mode that we (unfortunately) shot in:
"""
Smooth Motion Function (patented)
JVC's exclusive smooth motion function captures images at double the normal rate when shooting in 30p or 25p (that is, at 60p or 50p). When the doubled images are merged, they are passed through a newly developed filter that smoothes out the subject's motion by retaining a small percentage of residual image. This eliminates the motion judder that typically appear in images shot at 30p or 25p."""

Maybe this might help.

Man, what headache!
  Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2006, 01:20 AM   #10
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
By the way, Yes, it does display on the CU-VH1 internal monitor.
  Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2006, 03:41 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Johnson
Now, this doesn't make sense at the surface, cause it appears that there's no such thing as 720-60, or at leaset FCP doesn't want to see it, but the following is from JVC's specs and describes the mode that we (unfortunately) shot in: Smooth Motion Function ...
You've been shooting in straight 720 30p. The JVC can not record 720 60p. Smooth Motion doesn't change that fact.
__________________
Please keep in mind that English is not my native language.
Ben De Rydt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2006, 04:07 AM   #12
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben De Rydt
You've been shooting in straight 720 30p. The JVC can not record 720 60p. Smooth Motion doesn't change that fact.

I would agree that this is possible, and that is the case. However, the problem still remains and I have yet to find a reasonable solution.

Thanks for everyone for jumping in.. still searching!

-
  Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 05:24 PM   #13
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Johnson
The footage is in 720-60, ...Not 24, not 30.
This may be what the deck tells you (because everything recorded to HDV tape on the HD100 is 720P60, but it is impossible to shoot in 720P60 (aka HDV-HD60P) on the HD100. You can shoot 480P60 (aka HDV-SD60P,) but that is not HD.

What does the camera say when you play the tape back in it? This will settle the confusion of the format once and for all.

I would suggest that if the deck isn't working for you, just use the camera for capturing your 720P30 footage directly into FCP5. Simply select the HDV 720P60 Easy Setup from the Final Cut Pro menu and then log & capture.

The CU-VH1 is listed as a possible "spooler" device by JVC, but remember that it was on retail shelves at least a year before the HD100 was even announced, and it is from the JVC consumer division.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 06:19 PM   #14
Ryan Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
This may be what the deck tells you (because everything recorded to HDV tape on the HD100 is 720P60, but it is impossible to shoot in 720P60 (aka HDV-HD60P) on the HD100. You can shoot 480P60 (aka HDV-SD60P,) but that is not HD.

What does the camera say when you play the tape back in it? This will settle the confusion of the format once and for all.

I would suggest that if the deck isn't working for you, just use the camera for capturing your 720P30 footage directly into FCP5. Simply select the HDV 720P60 Easy Setup from the Final Cut Pro menu and then log & capture.

The CU-VH1 is listed as a possible "spooler" device by JVC, but remember that it was on retail shelves at least a year before the HD100 was even announced, and it is from the JVC consumer division.
I think that your comments are probably a key to our problem here. I rented the cameras and do not have access to them, so I cannot, at the moment, tell you what the camera says. The footage does come in something like 853x480. So My operators set it to the wrong setting and we're not even shooting HD? Yikes! That's scary! I really think that you're on to something here and the trusth is beginning to suck. we'll make sure to adjust our settings if we even use these same cameras for the next shoot.

Now, that brings up a second question. If we did (albeit unintentionally) shoot HDV-SD60P, is there an easy setup in FCP 5 that should just "work"?

This would avoid our having to go through Media Manager to re-encode everything, which is taking about 5 hours per 60 minte tape!

Thanks Tim for that information. I was clearly given bad info by other people when trying to decide what "format" to shoot in. ARG!
  Reply With Quote
Old January 20th, 2006, 06:58 PM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Johnson
If we did (albeit unintentionally) shoot HDV-SD60P, is there an easy setup in FCP 5 that should just "work"?
No. This is a new format that isn't even on Apple's radar yet. Luckily it is contained in a standard mpeg2 transport stream, so you can still capture it with applications like HDVxDV or DVHSCap. I use HDV-SD60P to shoot true overcranked 60fps slow-motion and then play back at 24fps, but I wouldn't want to use it for anything else.

Does this footage look like "video" to you when it plays back in the deck? Not "filmlike" in its motion? If so, then it probably was shot in 480P60 (aka HDV-SD60P)

Let's assume you did shoot 480P60, you will have a NTSC frame size, but a frame rate of 59.94fps (instead of typical 29.97)

The workflows you described with iMovie or AIC in FCP5 seem logical. If they are working for you, then you should continue down that path.
What setting are you using to convert the clips in Media Manager? NTSC-DV?
Personally, I wouldn't use the media manager to transcode anything.
Just take the clips created by iMovie and use them. iMovie automatically transcodes HDV material into AIC as it digitizes. You obviously figured out how to "Show Package Contents" of the iMovie project file and take the media clips from inside there.
Remember that you will have to create a sequence in FCP5 that matches the source clip properties. So select one of your clips and hit CMD+9 to look at the properties. Take note of frame rate, pixel dimesions, pixel aspect ratio, field order, audio sample rate and codec. Now create a new sequence, select Sequence Settings and match the settings. You will know everything jives if you edit one of your clips into the timeline and there is no red render bar.

Your sequence settings will most likely be 853x480, square pixels, progressive or "none" for field order, AIC codec, 48Khz 16-Bit.

Now just edit in the native 480P60 AIC format. When you are finished you can drop the sequence into a new NTSC sequence and render it for standard 29.97 broadcast.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network