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Old January 8th, 2003, 10:55 AM   #16
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Don't switch because of some marketing guy, switch because it costs you money, lost clients or both. The majority of my clients prefer that I edit with FCP and I use it for my personal work as well. I have some clients that prefer I use a PC and I do. I don't try to get them to switch to Mac. To each his own. I also realize that I can't edit for every client in Tampa Bay. I go with the platform that gets me the most work. Steve Job's stated yesterday that FCP is the leading NLE based on units sold (add the boot legged copies and watch-out). I saw the trend several years ago with FCP stealing from AVID. I saw my base eroding away and I switched to keep my clients. If something else comes along (on PC or Mac or whatever) I'll switch again. But for now I'll ride the crest of the wave.

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Old January 8th, 2003, 11:16 AM   #17
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RE Jobs

yeah, It sucks to loose clients because of misguided perceptions...some say perception IS reality.....I tend think that reality is reality.....as for Jobs,, I dont put TOO much stock in what he says...he is first and foremost a showman, and one thing I know about TV is that its NOT real.
It all comes down to the work......Owning an AVID, or a FCP system does NOT make you an editor......the real question is whether you can EDIT, not whether you own a MAC.....unfortunately, there is an aweful lot of "uniform non-conformity" in the creative community....the fact is that those who are different(re. Win2 editors) are viewed as different, and NOT in a good way, by others in the "creative community".....maybe when Apple starts using Intel CPU's, as it is now rumored they will, and drops its prices by 60-70% I will consider seriously the possibilty of using a Mac in my room. Capital investment and cost-benefit....THATS reality...
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Old January 8th, 2003, 01:12 PM   #18
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Mac vs. PC

I learned to fly in a Cessna, so I tend to think they're much better than Pipers. I guess you could call me a Cessna snob.

Although, now that I think about it... Piper does have better visibility when you're looking up (low ings). But then, Cessna has better visibility when you're looking down (high wings).

And both crash if not operated properly, despite Piper snobs' claims.

I've flown both.

Damn. Now I'm really confused. I don't know which I l ike best.
 
Old January 8th, 2003, 01:52 PM   #19
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My experience with PC speed and reliability

My comments on the speed of the computers was based on my own personal experience, not some lame Quake benchmark I saw on the internet. I have both a Playstation 1 and 2 to play games with, I don't need them on my computer.
As for the speed, I have personally used Cleaner 5 on a $20,000 DualP3-1Ghz Compaq computer, it wasn't even half has fast as Cleaner 5 on a $3600 Dual500-G4 (these prices were new).
For reliability, I used the same Compaq with the Media100 iFinish. Not only would this machine crash every 4 hours and corrupt all of the data, but the format it captured to can't even be used outside of iFinish (pretty lame). I will admit it was pretty speedy but crashing and starting over every day...not worth it. Not only could our own computer tech support (15,000 plus employee company) not figure out the stability issue, but the company that sold it too us (I won't mention their name but they are here in Dallas and are very big) couldn't figure out the problem. Our solution was to buy 3 Dual 800 FCP machines for the same price as that one PC.
Which brings us to price. If you try to go out and configure 2 equally spec'd editing workstations, the price is about the same. Just like you can buy a less expensive iMac, you can buy a super cheap-o PC, but you get a super cheap-o machine.
I have 3 PC's and 5 Mac's (I keep my old machines for testing) and while I will admit there are certainly app's that run on the PC faster (Maya and Internet Explorer that I use) the experience is nicer to me on the Mac. I actually have both of them side by side on my desk. I use them both every day. I have been entertaining the idea of building another Dual X86 machine (I haven't decided on Pentium or Athlon, I have both already) and trying out some of the Canopus apps. But I just can't force myself to move to WinXP and I hate 2KPro. I wish someone would make some really killer editing apps for Linux (yes Piranha would be great, maybe I should specify "under $250K"). In the mean time, I am so happy with FCP it doesn't matter.

It is just a tool. I do my video on the Mac, my audio on the PC and my gaming on the Playstation2.
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Old January 8th, 2003, 01:53 PM   #20
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<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Taylor : They both have their strengths and weaknesses.. Mac OS tends to be much more stable than Windows. -->>>

This statement is only accurate when you're talking about Home versions of windows (95, 98, ME). Users of the pro versions (NT, 2000, XP PRO) will tell you that they just don't crash.

Me? 3 years with only 1 crash.

Those Apple Switch ads are like propaganda. They ask you to compare the Apple OS to the home editions of Windows, which are crash prone.

When dealing with Windows, stick with Windows Pro for Pro work, and you will find the kind of stability you will never ever ever find with a Mac.

Apple's latest OS X Jaguar promises to be much more stable, and probably is because it's based on Unix, which arguably is the most stable platform out there.

Ultimately, as said earlier in this thread, pick what works for you, for the software that you like. These are just tools. A brush doesn't make the artist, etc. etc.

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Old January 8th, 2003, 01:59 PM   #21
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A $20,000 dual P3? The case was platinum-plated, right?

The thing about playing games on Playstation, Xbox, and all of the other console boxes is you have to sit in front of a monitor that only has about 200 lines of resolution and only refreshes 60 times a second. Headache city.
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Old January 8th, 2003, 02:13 PM   #22
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Mac V PC

a Dual P3??? abit stopped making the VP6 over a year ago...thats old technology already....look at the specs on the new 3.4 P4 with Hyper threading...AMD is topping 3 GHZ and introducing 64 bit CPUS....Motorola just cant compete, and with only about 4 % of the installed user base, they have no incentive to compete...thats why Apple is looking at IBM CPU's...Apples fortunes are tied to Motorola, and even Jobs knows that thats a bad business strategy.

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/10_oct/editorials/cw_editorial60.htm
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Old January 8th, 2003, 02:22 PM   #23
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Mac V Pc

BTW.....$20,ooo for a PC??? you cant be serious...if you are, I hope your business has generous investors with very deep pockets and little concern for profits.
Oh, and in a year of running Win2k....NOT ONE CRASH.....dont compare apples and oranges....how many editors are running win 95?? how many are running system 7???
Professional apps require a professional OS....
I would agree with the notion that Unix or Linux solutions are a
nice idea.........the sweet thing about X86 systems is being able to run multiple OS's...I am running 3, and I could run more If I cared to.
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Old January 8th, 2003, 03:02 PM   #24
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<<<-- Originally posted by Imran Zaidi : Those Apple Switch ads are like propaganda. They ask you to compare the Apple OS to the home editions of Windows, which are crash prone. -->>>

Watch the ads again. http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/They make no reference to home or pro editions of windows. The people represented in the ads were probably using home editions. Why? Because thats what most PC users buy. They don't buy pro editions for their daughters to type high school reports on. The ads are aimed at the home market. You don't see professional editors on the ads. It's moms and dads and kids and small business owners etc. People who would use the home versions and as you point out, experience crashes.

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Old January 8th, 2003, 03:57 PM   #25
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All except for XP Home Edition which is what home users in today's market are actually getting, which is stable due to a different backbone. Apples to oranges (no pun intended). So yup, propaganda; information with a slant. It is, after all, marketing. Marketing is full of propaganda artists and spin doctors, no big secret.
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Old January 8th, 2003, 08:22 PM   #26
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Oh, man, this is fun. Every now and then, some unsuspecting soul starts one of these strings! They make about as much sense now as the first ones...

Note for Charles -- over the years, I' ve never crashed a Cessna -- I'll bet, however, if was flying Piper, I would have had several unexpected ones, with the subsequent "loss of productivity"! (Gotta admit, though, that the sun streaming in from above would be nice.)

Cheers
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Old January 8th, 2003, 11:23 PM   #27
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I teach Photography and Digital Photography at a local fine arts school. My digital photography class started this evening. I have 25 students and out of the 25, 21 are using PCs. The other 4 use Macs. These numbers are fairly typical of my classes. Almost all of my students are first time digital users. Among my students tonight were a college dean, a professor at a nearby college, an artist, a few college and high school students, retirees and moms and dads. Many of them are usually associated as the types that would own Macs. Guess what? They own PCs. Out of the 21, 19 had problems installing the drivers, getting their cameras to download etc. Some of them still can't do it and are hoping I can fix it for them. And yes, most of them are using Windows 98, Windows 95 (good luck) and ME. No surprise they are having problems.

To demonstrate to them how simple it can be I used one of the schools iBooks. I connected a Canon Elph (no driver loading), iPhoto instantly opened, recognized the camera and downloaded all my pictures into an album. The majority of them were shocked and stunned. They had no idea it could be so simple and easy.

The switching ads are aimed at these people. People who have had less than ideal computing experiences. Face it PCs aren't for everybody, and neither are Macs. Differences should be welcomed in people and computer operating systems. Differences should be treated with respect, and ignorance with tolerance, patience and understanding.

Mac users are not Vipers or Mac Heads. They are moms and dads, sisters and brother and neighbors and friends. Treat them with respect and they'll treat you the same way. This thread was probably started by some Troll looking for a flame war and he got it. Enough said.

Jeff
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Old January 9th, 2003, 12:34 AM   #28
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Yes...$20,000

When was the last time you bought a Professional Editing workstation from a VAR? Even the newest B&H Catalog lists a Dual P3 Avid Xpress machine for $4999.95. The fastest machine they offer in the X86 platform is a Dual 2.4 P4 Xeon and in their Targa setup (and not even a great one) it costs $9,999.95. Now figure building a top of the line Dual P3 Xeon with a Media 100 V80 last year when it was several hundred dollars for 256MB of PC100 RAM (remember that) and a 18Gig SCSI drive was almost a grand. Well you do the math, the $20K was a bargain to us, being a Compaq technology partner (buying several thousand computers from them a year) we even got a discount. And yes even running 2000 Professional I get crashes and errors every day (more errors than crashes now because I barely use the machine for real work anymore).
Believe me, I cussed my Mac for quite a while when I was in OS9 but since I've been in OSX it has been a truly wonderful experience. And for the record I am not a sister, mother, grandmother, father or any of your other stereotypical "Mac-user" profiles. I am an industrial designer turned video/multimedia producer with a 20+ year background in photography. I prefer to design in pencil on paper and I view the computer as a means of outputting a concpet that I have thouroughly worked out on paper before I ever sit at the keyboard. When I get there all I want is for the computer to do what I ask without questioning the method I choose, and do it without crashing. If I wanted to sit around all day and edit my registry, I would have become a geek. I am an artist and have better things to do with my sanity (or what's left of it). But that's me.
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Old January 9th, 2003, 12:47 AM   #29
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...And on that note I think it's time to close this discussion and devote our energies to more germane and informative topics.

Whether someone uses PC's or Mac's is immaterial here. Everyone expects and gets respect and civility at DVInfo.
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