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Old February 28th, 2006, 09:09 PM   #1
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HD100 HDV Format and Final Cut

I heard and this might sound crazy but that only Canopus can Edit JVC's HDV codec right now. I dont have HDV right now but I was looking into getting the HD100 but I am a bit concerned now that I hear that Final Cut pro is not ready for that codec. If its just a rendering thing no problem but if it's going to slow down my G5 allot I waisted money on that machine thinking I was getting ready for the future to edit HD and HDV. Please you guru's help me understand all this. also what is SSE? I see that allot when speaking about the JVC.
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Old February 28th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #2
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if you're trying 24p, FCP doesnot, But will on FCP 6, As for right now you can edit HDV 30p, to the extent of doing a live capture
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Old February 28th, 2006, 11:51 PM   #3
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SSE is "split screen effect" -- just browse this forum, there are plenty of discussions which cover it.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 12:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Jones
I heard and this might sound crazy but that only Canopus can Edit JVC's HDV codec right now. I dont have HDV right now but I was looking into getting the HD100 but I am a bit concerned now that I hear that Final Cut pro is not ready for that codec. If its just a rendering thing no problem but if it's going to slow down my G5 allot I waisted money on that machine thinking I was getting ready for the future to edit HD and HDV. Please you guru's help me understand all this.
Before you post you might at least look through the topics covered.

You might also consider it's "don't" -- it's not "allot" -- and I wouldn't worry that you "waisted" your money. :)
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Old March 1st, 2006, 12:06 AM   #5
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Final Cut Pro handles certain flavors of HDV with gusto...as easy and fast as DV in many ways. It just doesn't handle all the newest flavors of HDV from the Canon XLH-1 and JVC.

Just go get a demo on all the systems before buying.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 10:45 AM   #6
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Mocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
Before you post you might at least look through the topics covered.

You might also consider it's "don't" -- it's not "allot" -- and I wouldn't worry that you "waisted" your money. :)
Steve,
It appears that Mr. Jones is humbly asking "you gurus" for assistance. Do you think it warranted or helpful to mock his lack of familiarity with protcol or spelling? I think your response says more about you than him. Get off that high horse.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 11:05 AM   #7
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HD100 and FCP...(version?)

I have the HD100 as well, and i'm also concerned about Final Cut Pro not being able to edit the footage.

Has anyone here used FCP to edit the HD100 and what version must you use?

I've heard people say that FCP 5 should work fine with the HD100, but I've been telling him not to be so certain yet. I don't know for sure because I'ven't been able to test it out yet.

:: efrain
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Old March 1st, 2006, 11:19 AM   #8
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I have edited the 30p footage in FCP. However I had to edit the footage in an SD timeline. And export it out as DV or DVCPro.

You can edit in the HDV format but the render times, are simply not worth the wait.

Otherwise. It appears that apple is not going to provide tremendous support.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 11:49 AM   #9
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HD100 24p and FCP?

crap i should've specified... Has anyone edited HD100 24p in FCP?
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Old March 1st, 2006, 01:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Henson
I have edited the 30p footage in FCP. However I had to edit the footage in an SD timeline. And export it out as DV or DVCPro.
You can edit in the HDV format but the render times, are simply not worth the wait.
Otherwise. It appears that apple is not going to provide tremendous support.
Geez! I go to bed early one night and widespread FCP panic hits the forum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efrain Gomez
crap i should've specified... Has anyone edited HD100 24p in FCP?
Yes.. I have. Nate has. And many others have.

There needs to be some clarification though (I'm feeling some déja vu here) and the word "native" should be included in discussions regarding HDV & NLE compatibility.

So, does FCP 5 edit HDV 720P30 natively? The answer is yes. It maintains timecode, you can use log and capture, it will batch capture, you can edit in native resolution, it will export and it works beautifully.

Does FCP 5 edit HDV 720P24 or 720P25 natively? Not yet, and potentially won't until version 6. Officially (according to JVC documentation,) FCP's 720P24 support will come in the next "maintenance release."

Does FCP 4.5 or 5 edit HDV 720P24 or 720P25 non-natively? Absolutely. There are at least three separate workflows that work quite well. We have discussed the various methods at length in this forum and in our FCP for HDV forum.

The M.O.S. AIC method: (additional cost: $0)
If you have FCP5, you can set the Easy Setup to "HDV 720P30 Apple Intermediate Codec" and digitize, without TC, video in any JVC format.
You can also use iMovieHD to do exactly the same thing. THe AIC digitizer captures everything on the tape and makes a new clip every time it detects a new scene (start/stop.)
The AIC digitizer is not smart enough to know that the frame rate is set for 24 or 25, so instead it throws away the repeat flagged frames, but maintains a 59.94 fps frame rate for the quicktime file.
Therefore, 720P24 and 720P25 will require the use of Cinema Tools to conform the frame rate to 23.98 or 25 respectively. This method works well for M.O.S. projects like music videos, but is not ideal for sync sound situations unless you used a slate and want to capture the sound separately.

The HDVxDV method (additional cost: $80)
HDVxDV now supports 720P24 capture from the HD100. The interface is not as easy to use as FCP's built in Log & Capture because it has no live video/audio preview, and there are no search buttons, just FF, REW, STOP & PLAY.
However, it is simple and easy to understand. Brad Wright, the developer, has attempted to facilitate the capture of source TC, but it does not work well yet.
Simply put, you capture clips straight from the camera, then export them to a secondary codec of your choice for editing in FCP 4.5 or 5. I suggest Apple Intermediate Codec. There is one little inconvience in the software (v1.24) that creates 24fps files instead of 23.98fps files. Either one seems to work in a 23.98 sequence without rendering, so I guess it isn't a big deal, unless it is the root of the problem of sync issues some people have reported on long clips. If the sync issue is created during the export, then changing the frame rate to 23.98 in Cinema Tools won't fix it. Maybe Brad Wright can inform us of what is going on with regard to 23.98 vs 24fps.

The Lumiere HD method (additional cost: $179)
Lumiere HD now "supports" 720P24 and 720P25 capture. The interface is basically the same as HDVxDV (I believe both originated from Apple's DVHSCap) but Lumiere HD has added space for description, scene and take with auto-incrementation. The workflow can seem daunting at first (and definitely takes the most time overall) but there can be some distinct advantages for proxy offline editing.
However, TC is not captured and batch recapturing is not supported.
I have been testing the latest version of Lumiere HD (v1.6b6) for a couple of weeks and it is working MUCH BETTER than 1.6b2 ever did. The workflow remains unchanged, but you can output 720P24 back to the HD100. Lumiere HD 1.6b6 is the only piece of software on the mac that will allow you to do that.

Capturing HDV-SD60P or HDV-SD50P for "overcranked" slow motion. (additional cost: $0)
You can use Apple's DVHSCap (or HDVxDV/Lumiere HD) to capture 480P60 or 576P50 HDV to m2t files. Then you can use MPegStreamclip to convert and uprez the m2t streams to Quicktime. Cinema Tools can then conform the frame rate down to 23.98 and you have instant overcranked slow-mo for use in FCP 4.5 or 5.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 08:38 PM   #11
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HDVXDV Sync Problem Solved

Tim Wrote "If the sync issue is created during the export, then changing the frame rate to 23.98 in Cinema Tools won't fix it. Maybe Brad Wright can inform us of what is going on with regard to 23.98 vs 24fps."

I used HDVXDV to capture HDV 24p from my HD100U Camera.
I then used Quicktime Conversion Expert Option: Apple Intermediate Codec 720p checked.

I still had a problem with audio loosing sync.

I found Streamclip 1.51 for OSX and demuxed the audio as AIF
from the HDVXDV captured m2t file.

I brought the converted quicktime into FCP and replaced the audio
with the demuxed AIF and the whole thing was in perfect sync.

The only problem is when I went to make a multiclip and do a 3 camera
multicam/clip edit the performance was terrible. I tried on a brand
new Quad 2.5 G5,, so, not sure where to go for there....
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:05 AM   #12
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Thanks Tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
Geez! I go to bed early one night and widespread FCP panic hits the forum!

There needs to be some clarification though (I'm feeling some déja vu here) and the word "native" should be included in discussions regarding HDV & NLE compatibility.
Thanks for the excellant post Tim. The relality is most of us have not used all the various NLEs or have used older versions of them. With the speed at which the technology is changing, it's nice to know at least some of us out there know what the real deal is.

Premiere Pro 2.0 or FCP 6.... Decisions decisions.... :)

John
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