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Old October 4th, 2006, 09:21 PM   #1
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Anyone using the DR-HD100 with the new FCP

Hi Gang,

I'm at the end of a rough cut on a feature shot with the HD100.

Is it now possible for me to possibly export and EDL and then reimport my original m2t files (which came off the DR-HD100)?

How is anyone bringing in files from the DR, which are m2ts?

As always.

Thanks,

Tom Chaney
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Old October 4th, 2006, 09:25 PM   #2
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You don't. Final Cut doesn't deal with m2ts.
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Old October 5th, 2006, 03:41 AM   #3
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Thanks Nate,

I assume that FCP is doing something "on the fly" when someone is importing tape, but since there isn't a QT wrapper on the 24p stuff, how can you import it if it is on the drive?

Are we stuck waiting on the QT Wrapper from focus?

And will it only be creating AICs anyway?

Tom

Last edited by Tom Chaney; October 5th, 2006 at 04:33 AM.
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Old October 5th, 2006, 04:07 AM   #4
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If you edited from cross-converted AIC created from your m2t files, then there is actually a way to utilize the original files.

You could demux your original files into m2v. Don't bother with audio and just use what you already have.
You can then reconnect your sequence to the m2v files.

This is essentially the workflow of LumiereHD. However, I don't really see the advantage in doing this when you will have to render it into a real-time playable codec in the timeline anyway. I doubt even the new HDV 24P codec would work properly with m2v.
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Old October 5th, 2006, 04:25 AM   #5
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Thanks Tim,

I used your workflow for cutting the feature and it worked flawlessly.

I was looking for two things in possibly referencing the original files.

1. Any possible improvement in image quality (although I think the AICs are gorgeous).

2. Reduction in size of the overall project. I want to send it to someone in LA for mixing.

Tom Chaney
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Old October 5th, 2006, 03:41 PM   #6
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Final Cut will not accept m2t files?

Hi Nate and Tim,

After having issues editing HDV with my PC, I just ordered a new MAC Pro.

Is this true that Final Cut will not accept m2t files? If so, what format does Final Cut work with to edit "native HDV"? I was hoping to take all of my HD100 24p m2ts (some from a Firestore Drive) and edit them within Final Cut Studio. I need to rebuild a project that I was editing on my PC.

Is my only option to demux and transcode them into m2v files as Tim suggested? If so, will I lose any quality?

What workflows have worked best for both of you?

Thanks in advance,

-Geoff Murillo
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Old October 5th, 2006, 04:45 PM   #7
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Maybe someone can sticky this because I am getting tired of having to find it in the forum every time someone asks this question:

- Download DVHSCap and MPEG STREAMCLIP.
- Use DVHSCap (or a firestore) and capture the .m2t file.
- Open the file in MPEG STREAMCLIP.
- Select either HDV 24 or AIC for the codec.
- Bring the Quality Slider to Best.
- Deselest the De-interlace check boxes.
- In the Frame Rate Box, enter 23.976.

In FCP use whichever Presest for AIC 30 or HDV 24 (depending on what you choose).

In the Sequence settings (Command 0), put the editing timebase to 23.98. *not needed now with HDV 720/24P easy setup

This seems like a long workaround but it is rather quick. The only time consuming thing is the conversion. You can also Batch Convert in MPEG STREAMCLIP
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Old October 5th, 2006, 04:50 PM   #8
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Steve,

Thank you for the reply. I get my MAC delivered next week and this will be the first time I've cut HDV on a MAC so this is all new to me.

Sorry that this has been asked so many times before and that I'm only adding to the list.

Thank you again. I appreciate you taking the time to post the steps.

Geoff Murillo
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Old October 5th, 2006, 06:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Murillo
Is this true that Final Cut will not accept m2t files? If so, what format does Final Cut work with to edit "native HDV"? I was hoping to take all of my HD100 24p m2ts (some from a Firestore Drive) and edit them within Final Cut Studio.
Geoff,

You are entering the world of HD100/FCP5 editing at a very good time. For over a year we have been struggling with various workflows for bringing HD100 material into FCP. 720P30 has worked since the HD100 hit the market, but the real challenge has been 720P24 and 720P25.

As of two weeks ago Apple updated FCP5.1 to 5.1.2, adding the ability to capture native HDV 720P24/25 from the HD100 or BR-HD50 directly into FCP with the ease of DV. There are still some quirks to be worked out with TC, but the whole process has been greatly simplified.

The way FCP handles native mpeg2 transport streams is to "wrap" it into Quicktime. Basically, there is no quality loss or difference between the wrapped file as opposed to the original stream. The important difference is that it is a ".mov" file and can be edited in realtime in a FCP HDV timeline.

Last month Focus released new firmware for their DR-HD100 that performs this wrapping process while capturing. At the moment it only works with 720P30, but a representative of Focus has said on dvinfo that they would start developing 720P24 compatibility once FCP5.1.2 was available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Murillo
Is my only option to demux and transcode them into m2v files as Tim suggested? If so, will I lose any quality?
Since your only option currently with the DR-HD100 and 720P24 is to record as m2t, then you will need to use an alternative workflow to actually use these files in FCP.

No one has yet developed a simple application that will easily "wrap" m2t files into Quicktime HDV.

However, there are three software applications that will demux or convert m2t files into Quicktime using any codec you wish.

IMPORTANT: Even though TC information is embedded in the m2t files, it will be lost during any conversion, and therefore you will never be able to batch capture in the future from the original tape. Therefore, backup these m2t files and never delete them.


Demuxing a m2t file simply means that your are splitting the video & audio data from a transport stream and re-writing it into a video m2v file and audio file. There is no image degradation. Final Cut Pro can play and work with m2v files, but it requires alot of processing power and they are not ideal for the offline editing process.
Therefore, it is desirable to re-encode your m2t into an all I-frame codec such as Apple Intermediate Codec (considered near-lossless similar to Cineform, yet space efficient), uncompressed, DVCPROHD.
The choice of codec is important because it will impact your offline efficiency, and video quality.
If you are planning to digitize the majority of your footage natively via FCP, then you should probably recompress into the HDV codec to maintain real-time performance in your timeline.

The most popular workflow for a long time involved a commercial application called LumiereHD. Another commercial application that also works is HDVxDV.
However, there is one very versatile shareware app that has become increasingly popular because of its reliability and low cost: MPEGStreamclip.

You can easily batch encode your 720P24 m2t files into a quicktime format with MpegStreamclip.
  • Select Batch List from the List Menu
  • Drag your m2t files into the batch list
  • Choose "Export to Quicktime" as the task (this should be the default.)
  • Use Apple HDV 720p24, Uncompressed Audio 48kHz, Frame Rate 23.976, and deselect all of the checkmarks.
That's it. You will now have .mov files that can be directly dragged into FCP and used in your HDV 720p24 timeline.

If you are unhappy with the recompressed picture, and want the best quality possible when it is time to online, you can use MpegStreamclip to demux your original m2t files into m2v and then re-link to your sequence, replacing the converted .mov files, then change the sequence codec to uncompressed 8-bit or 10-bit. After rendering in FCP into uncompressed (you will need LOTS of hard drive space) you can output via decklink or kona and compress for DVD, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray.
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Old October 5th, 2006, 06:15 PM   #10
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Thank you Tim.

Is there an advanced settings feature in MPEGStreamclip where I can flip my footage during conversion? I shot my film with a Redrock Micro adapter.

If MPEGStreamclip cannot do this, I know I can just rotate the clips in the timeline. Just want to know if I can save a step and rotate the footage during conversion.

-Geoff
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Old October 5th, 2006, 06:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Murillo
Is there an advanced settings feature in MPEGStreamclip where I can flip my footage during conversion? I shot my film with a Redrock Micro adapter.
MpegStreamclip doesn't do it. Flips and Flops are realtime effects in FCP, so no worries.

A little trick in FCP is that you can apply an effect to a source clip. This would be useful in your case.
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Old October 5th, 2006, 06:30 PM   #12
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Thank you Tim.

It's great to know all of this in advance.

I'm sure I'll be posting more questions when my MAC arrives.

-Geoff
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Old October 5th, 2006, 06:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Benner
Maybe someone can sticky this because I am getting tired of having to find it in the forum every time someone asks this question
A long time ago I was planning to create an article with all of the different workflows available based on individual needs.
However, I've refrained from posting these workflows as stickies because there is no one workflow or piece of software that suits everyone.
Wedding video guys, filmmakers, music video producers, and broadcast content providers all have very different needs.
Also, the workflows seem to change slightly every month based on software advancements, and actively discussing them seems to reveal new tricks all the time.

I'd prefer our members research and educate themselves on what post-workflow is ideal for their situation and learn how it works. It doesn't hurt to ask, and it keeps the ever changing landscape of FCP workflows fresh in people's minds.
I've found in my experience training editors and editing assistants that this method works much better than blindly following established workflows without them understanding 'why.'
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Old October 5th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
A long time ago I was planning to create an article with all of the different workflows available based on individual needs.
However, I've refrained from posting these workflows as stickies because there is no one workflow or piece of software that suits everyone.
Wedding video guys, filmmakers, music video producers, and broadcast content providers all have very different needs.
Also, the workflows seem to change slightly every month based on software advancements, and actively discussing them seems to reveal new tricks all the time.

I'd prefer our members research and educate themselves on what post-workflow is ideal for their situation and learn how it works. It doesn't hurt to ask, and it keeps the ever changing landscape of FCP workflows fresh in people's minds.
I've found in my experience training editors and editing assistants that this method works much better than blindly following established workflows without them understanding 'why.'
That's a very good point Tim...I agree.
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