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Old February 7th, 2007, 07:04 AM   #1
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HDV / SheerVideo / Nattress / FCP - Workflow ??

Hey all,

I'm struggling a bit with finding a workflow, anyone have any suggestions please? Here's the deal...

Shooting HDV 1080i60, hoping to edit in 1080i60 for fast editing and to save disk space.

Then I want to drop timeline into SheerVideo timeline to render and de-interlace with nattress film effects to work with a progressive timeline for effects and final output.

Is there a 29.97p setting I can work with? I want to keep pulldown via nattress film effects instead of converting to 24p so output is easy back to DVD and web.

I looked at the sheervideo presets, but everything above 24p is interlaced. Is that a feature lock of FCP?

Thank you!
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Old February 7th, 2007, 07:12 AM   #2
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I would like to keep as much quality as possible. That's why I want to work with sheervideo, uncompressed is too high a bitrate.
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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #3
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Sorry for hijacking your thread a bit, but I'm interested in your experience with SheerVideo codec, workflow, quality, how well do you like it things like that.

If you get some time and wouldn't mind carrying on a discussion about it please let m know.

Thanks
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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:16 AM   #4
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Chuck mate

Download the demo and thrash the pants out of it! you've been posting regarding this DI workflow for a while now ... reckon you should be posting with your conclusions any time now!!

Cheers <grin>
Andy
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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Mees
Chuck mate

Download the demo and thrash the pants out of it! you've been posting regarding this DI workflow for a while now ... reckon you should be posting with your conclusions any time now!!

Cheers <grin>
Andy
I know...

I've recently switched from the PC to the MAC and I've been paranoid about installing anything that might wreak havoc on the MAC [FCP] without some feedback from someone who has used it.

No users of this codec had responded to my earlier requests, Etienne is the first user I've heard mention it.

I'll get to thrashing....
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Old February 7th, 2007, 11:32 AM   #6
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I've installed it and LOVE it. There is a compatibility issue with BMD (Black Magic Designs) components in the Library/Quictime folder that will cause FCP to crash on launch, but if you don't have a BMD card installed, you should be fine.

Now back to our previously scheduled thread....
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Old February 8th, 2007, 02:20 AM   #7
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Hey guys,

I tried the demo first, but I don't think the demo allows work with HD.
I didn't find any other solution, so just went ahead and got it, mac intel version literally came out only a couple days ago.

I previously took some m2t files from the hard disk recorder (FS-4 HD) and converted it to HDV for FCP with MPEG steamclip. There was too much quality loss. That's when I started looking for another codec. Since then the hard disk recorder now supports native HDV quicktime, but I still see too much quality loss after I render simple effects.

So, testing out with the sheer codec compared to HDV, I don't see the same loss now. I'm EXTREMELY happy. The test for me is when I render a Nattress effect in native HDV, and then in sheer. It looks SO much better in a sheervideo timeline instead of native HDV.

I tested to see differences in final output to 720p H.264

Now to have to work with all that extra data, I found this cheap raid from Lacie;
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10848

$499 for 1TB raid. It has an eSATA which should plug in with an ExpressCard/34 eSATA card in my MacBook Pro. Supposedly around 100MByte/sec sustained speed with the expresscard/34, which should be more than enough for the sheer codec.

I'm waiting on the Lacie and expresscard/34, I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 12:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Etienne Botha
Hey guys,



I previously took some m2t files from the hard disk recorder (FS-4 HD) and converted it to HDV for FCP with MPEG steamclip. There was too much quality loss. That's when I started looking for another codec. Since then the hard disk recorder now supports native HDV quicktime, but I still see too much quality loss after I render simple effects.

So, testing out with the sheer codec compared to HDV, I don't see the same loss now. I'm EXTREMELY happy. The test for me is when I render a Nattress effect in native HDV, and then in sheer. It looks SO much better in a sheervideo timeline instead of native HDV.

I tested to see differences in final output to 720p H.264
Which camera are you capturing from? What is the workflow using the Sheer Video codec to capture HDV?
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Old February 9th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #9
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Your workflow won't change. You just use the Sheer codec for capture and for your sequence, and output to whatever the project calls for.

- Chuck, just download the demo already ;-)

-Tim
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Old February 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Brown
Your workflow won't change. You just use the Sheer codec for capture and for your sequence, and output to whatever the project calls for.

- Chuck, just download the demo already ;-)

-Tim
I did, honest.

But when I use the easy setup to create a sheer video sequence and then try to capture FCP doesn't see the camera. I am able to capture from this camera into a project setting with the Apple Intermediate Codec using the log and capture window and I can capture to a native or basic HDV sequence but not using the capture window [a small dialog box pops up which asks for the reel number, then it goes off and captures the entire tape].

When I launch the log and capture window in the sheer video project I get an error message "Capture Perset must have a video and audio digitizer set to capture. Please change to desired preset in the Audio/Video Settings."

I assume this is refering to the Capture and Settings Tab in the log and capture window. In there under device control it is set [by default] to Non-controllable device, when I open that pop up menu there's about six choices for device control [O tried them all - non worked] after clicking on the DVCProHD firewire option I get "Unable to initialize video deck. You may still log offline clips or use capture now." Which also doesn't work.

The capture/input dialog box appears t be similar to the easy set up bu there is no sheer video setups available. I'm guessing this is a set up issue.

Sorry to use this thread for support. I did email Sheer Viedo but they have not responded. I also captured into an SD uncompressed sheer video project and it worked and looked great.

My expectation is that you would capture just like you do with the Apple Intermediate codec, using the log and capture window but with the Sheer Video Codec.

Eteinne had mentioned that you couldn't capture HDV with the demo copy of the software but I didn't see that mentioned on their website.
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Old February 9th, 2007, 01:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Spaulding
Eteinne had mentioned that you couldn't capture HDV with the demo copy of the software but I didn't see that mentioned on their website.
I wasn't aware of this. Perhaps if Eteinne could get back to us with his work-flow then we'll know for certain, but if not I'll double check this weekend and get back to you.

-Tim
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Old February 9th, 2007, 01:49 PM   #12
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Thanks, hopefully I'll hear back from support.

I haven't done too much troubleshooting just because this looks more like a configuration issue than a real problem.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 01:57 PM   #13
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I haven't tried any live capturing yet, still waiting on RAID setup.

I'm having problems de-interlacing for output to 1080p though, the best p output I can get without crazy artifacts is 720p. Since almost no one will watch 1080p, I guess its ok to only output to max 720p.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 07:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Brown View Post
There is a compatibility issue with BMD (Black Magic Designs) components in the Library/Quictime folder that will cause FCP to crash on launch, but if you don't have a BMD card installed, you should be fine.
Actually, it turns out to have nothing to do with Blackmagic Design or SheerVideo. The problem, which was #1 in the list of Known Problems on our website, is that Final Cut Pro 5.1.2 and QuickTime 7.1.2 had a hard-coded maximum of 64 codecs. Install more than that, and applications might crash, fail to recognize a codec, or act unstably in other ways. SheerVideo alone contains 8 encoders+decoders and 5 transcoders. Apple has removed this maximum in both Final Cut Pro 5.1.4 and QuickTime 7.1.5, so just download the latest versions, and everything will work together.

Andreas Wittenstein
BitJazz Inc.
http://www.bitjazz.com/
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Old March 6th, 2007, 07:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Spaulding View Post
But when I use the easy setup to create a SheerVideo sequence and then try to capture FCP doesn't see the camera. ...When I launch the log and capture window in the SheerVideo project I get an error message "Capture Preset must have a video and audio digitizer set to capture. Please change to desired preset in the Audio/Video Settings." ...but there is no SheerVideo setups available.
As we discussed off-list, this is almost certainly a result of having more codecs installed than Final Cut Pro 5.1.2 can handle. Upgrade to the new FCP 5.1.4 release, and everything should work.

Andreas Wittenstein
BitJazz Inc.
http://www.bitjazz.com/
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