Timeline Settings For 16mm Film? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Final Cut Suite
Discussing the editing of all formats with FCS, FCP, FCE


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 8th, 2007, 07:11 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 595
Timeline Settings For 16mm Film?

Hi Everyone!

We're shooting a short film in 16mm (NOT Super 16mm) with the intention to end up with a 16:9 wide screen master for distribution. After telecine we will end up with a 4:3 DigiBeta Tape Master. We intend to use FCP to edit.

What's the best work flow? Should we capture into FCP in 4:3 (using the uncompressed Blackmagic codec), using a 4:3 timeline and manually letterbox it (with, say a Photoshop image)? My plan is to then use compressor to export out a true 1024x576 wide-screen file. Is this the best method? Should I crop all the footage in After Effects or Shake first, and then start editing the newly created 16:9 footage?

Any ideas of the best method?

Thanks!

Chris!
Chris Hocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
NOTE: I realized after I posted this that Chris is in Australia, which of course uses the PAL standard. Therefore, most of this won't apply to his situation. I've left the text in the interest of helping any North American filmmakers interested in using the same technique.

I've done almost this exact same thing before. The most important thing when uprezzing something like this to 16x9 is to get rid of the pulldown fields and work in 24fps. Ripped frames just don't uprez nicely to 16x9.

If you composed for 16x9 (1.78:1) then you should transfer your 16mm to a good tape format (DigiBeta) in full frame 4x3 with a burn-in keycode and timecode down in the bottom. This will give you some room to play with composition later, and a visual reference for TC and keycode. Make sure they use the smallest font size possible, and you can even stick it down out of safe action.
Request a flex file log list (or whatever the telecine suite can kick out for you) on a CD-ROM, or by email. This list can be simple (automatically created for each cam roll) or detailed (the telecine operator manually enters scene and take numbers for every take.) Your choice will have an impact on the amount of time the transfer takes, and therefore your budget.

You have two choices depending on how you plan to sync your dailies.
1. You can pay to have the lab sync your dailies to your master tape. In this case transfer your film at "normal" 24fps (actually 23.98fps) and let the lab deal with the syncing.

2. You can choose to sync your sound yourself using the "merge clips" function built into FCP5, therefore saving lots of money. If you choose to do it this way you can either transfer the film at 30fps and conform to 24fps with Cinema Tools, or transfer at 24fps and remove the pulldown with Cinema Tools.

Since you are intending to stay in the video realm after the telecine I would personally recommend transferring your footage at 30fps (29.97) so that after it is digitized there will be no recompression or pulldown removal required. You can simply capture your footage using a standard NTSC preset (hopefully uncompressed with a Decklink or Kona) and then "conform" the clips to 24fps with Cinema Tools.
If you transfer at 24fps (23.98) in the telecine to tape you will have to remove the pulldown fields, and re-consitute the "C" frame into the 24P quicktime file anyway. This takes time and will never be as good as the 1:1 relationship a 29.97 transfer will give. If you aren't working in uncompressed the C frame will need to be re-compressed (generation loss.)

You can import your flex file list into Cinema Tools and export a FCP format batch list for capturing. There is a huge benefit in using this list if you transferred at 24fps because the inpoints should always be on an "A" frame, which will allow you to easily batch remove the pulldown in Cinema Tools. Managing the keycode will also be helpful if you ever plan to do a neg cut and answer print.

To recap, here's my recommended workflow to save money, hard drive space, and time:
  • If a digitach is available, shoot at 23.976 (23.98) fps. If not, shoot at 24fps.
  • Transfer 16mm to NTSC tape at 29.97fps with small burn-in TC/KC at very bottom.
  • Use Cinema Tools to import FLEX log file. Export a batch list to FCP.
  • Digitize each take as standard NTSC 29.97 4x3 in FCP. (Ideally at uncompressed)
  • Close FCP.
  • In Cinema Tools, use "Batch Conform" to conform all of your clips to the shooting frame rate (23.98 if a Digitach was used, otherwise 24fps.)
  • Re-open FCP and reconnect the files to the new "conformed" files found in a new "conformed" folder created by Cinema Tools.
  • Import or digitize sound elements
  • Use "merge clips" function to sync sound to picture. New merged clips will be created. Save your original clips into a bin and use these new merged clips to edit.
  • Edit your film using a NTSC 4x3 23.98fps timeline.
  • When finished, create a new sequence for 16x9 NTSC, 23.98fps.
  • Nest your original sequence into the new 16x9 sequence and adjust the scale until the top and bottom are cropped off. This is when you would adjust composition of individual shots if necessary.
  • Render and output for 16x9 DVD in 24P.

That's it. I hope this helps.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2007, 02:29 PM   #3
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Wait a sec... you're in PAL land.

Chris,

I just noticed that you are in Australia. In that case, replace any occurance of NTSC in my above post with PAL, and 29.97 with 25.
You don't even have to deal with 2:3 pulldown the way we North Americans do.

You have an even simpler way of dealing with the footage.
You even have the choice to shoot at 25fps if you want, transfer at 25fps, and not deal at all with 24fps. I would recommend doing exactly that.

I'll leave my above post for the benefit of North American filmmakers who may want to do the same thing.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2007, 05:12 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 611
Chris.

Set up a 16:9 timeline.

Capture all your 4:3 footage as 16:9 (i.e. with everything stretched out but in widescreen aspect) open a clip each in the viewer window to the Motion tab.

Under Basic Motion change Scale to 133.33

Under Distort make sure aspect is 33.33

You have to do this for each clip, I don't know if the process can be automated.

You can use Centre Point to reposition each clip vertically if necessary.
__________________
Shorts::Cut - www.shortscut.org.uk
The Short Film Festival for Portsmouth & Southsea.

Last edited by Dylan Pank; May 9th, 2007 at 03:32 AM. Reason: Whoops... typos!
Dylan Pank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2007, 03:21 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 595
Thanks Tim & Dylan!

Sorry Tim! I should have mentioned that I'm "down under" in the post - it would have saved you a whole heap of typing! Never-the-less, I'm sure it will help someone one day!

Chris!
Chris Hocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan Pank View Post
Chris.

Set up a 16:9 timeline.

Capture all your 4:3 footage as 16:9 (i.e. with everything stretched out but in widescreen aspect) open a clip each in the viewer window to the Motion tab.

Under Basic Motion change Scale to 133.33

Under Distort make sure aspect is 33.33

You have to do this for each clip, I don't know if the process can be automated.

You can use Centre Point to reposition each clip vertically if necessary.
If you go this way, you don't need to change scale, just the aspect ratio. Also, the centre point will remain the same.

There are many different routes to go, even in PAL land and of course, the best way is pretty much the most expensive.

For commercials I normally do a best light for editing and then either do a regrade in telecine for the final online or we transfer a one light to uncompressed D5 and do a grade from there once the edit has been locked.

The best way for you to go is to frame for 16:9 in camera, then telecine FHA (Full Height Anamorphic) to tape. You can fine tune your framing in telecine.

Select 'Anamorphic' in the browser for each clip and timeline you edit and off you go.

Can't you get your hands on some Super16mm kit? Makes a big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
[b]
To recap, here's my recommended workflow to save money, hard drive space, and time:
  • If a digitach is available, shoot at 23.976 (23.98) fps. If not, shoot at 24fps.
  • Transfer 16mm to NTSC tape at 29.97fps with small burn-in TC/KC at very bottom.
  • Use Cinema Tools to import FLEX log file. Export a batch list to FCP.
  • Digitize each take as standard NTSC 29.97 4x3 in FCP. (Ideally at uncompressed)
  • Close FCP.
  • In Cinema Tools, use "Batch Conform" to conform all of your clips to the shooting frame rate (23.98 if a Digitach was used, otherwise 24fps.)
  • Re-open FCP and reconnect the files to the new "conformed" files found in a new "conformed" folder created by Cinema Tools.
  • Import or digitize sound elements
  • Use "merge clips" function to sync sound to picture. New merged clips will be created. Save your original clips into a bin and use these new merged clips to edit.
  • Edit your film using a NTSC 4x3 23.98fps timeline.
  • When finished, create a new sequence for 16x9 NTSC, 23.98fps.
  • Nest your original sequence into the new 16x9 sequence and adjust the scale until the top and bottom are cropped off. This is when you would adjust composition of individual shots if necessary.
  • Render and output for 16x9 DVD in 24P.

That's it. I hope this helps.

Doesn't that make you glad you live in PAL land?

Hope that helps,

Liam.
__________________
Writer-Director-DOP
www.liamhall.net
Liam Hall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 595
Thanks for your reply Liam!

We don't have access to a Super 16mm camera for this particular film - only a straight 16mm camera. We also don't have the budget to go anything higher than DigiBeta in Telecine.
Chris Hocking is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Apple / Mac Post Production Solutions > Final Cut Suite

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network