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Old July 6th, 2007, 12:35 AM   #1
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FCP vs Vegas

I know Vegas well. What would be the learning curve if I bought a Mac and switched to FCP? I'm also seeing FCP2 and other versions. I take it the Suite is the one to get, right?
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Old July 7th, 2007, 09:07 PM   #2
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Vegas FCE

I am a Vegas user for several years. I am also a FCE HD 3.5 user for almost one year. Sorry FC guys but for me Vegas is much better, and also much faster. I am thinking of switching to Premiere Pro CS3 for my iMac 24.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #3
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Umm.....You do know that FCE is nowhere near what FCP 6 is right?? It's kind of like comparing Premiere Elements to Premiere Pro, or Photoshop Elements to Photoshop CS3. Just wanted to clarify. Final Cut Studio 2 (of which Final Cut Pro 6 is but one part) is an absolutely great suite of programs.... (I don't even know if you can buy Final Cut Pro 6 separately). When you take into account Motion 3 (with 3D capability....think After Effects) Soundtrack Pro, Compressor, DVD Studio Pro, Livetype.....I'd say it's a pretty good package. My personal opinion is that this package outshines Vegas.....but that's just my opinion. You definitely get a lot in the package though, it's like Adobe's Production Studio....it has an integrated package of programs instead of just an NLE.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 07:02 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Gabe Strong View Post
Final Cut Studio 2 (of which Final Cut Pro 6 is but one part) is an absolutely great suite of programs.... (I don't even know if you can buy Final Cut Pro 6 separately).
Final Cut Pro (FCP) used to be available separately, but you can only get it as part of the full Final Cut Studio now. So your choices are either Final Cut Studio 2 (FCS2) or Final Cut Express (FCE).
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Old July 8th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dana Salsbury View Post
I know Vegas well. What would be the learning curve if I bought a Mac and switched to FCP? I'm also seeing FCP2 and other versions. I take it the Suite is the one to get, right?
The Suite (Studio) is the right one to get, and overall it blows Vegas away IMO.

HOWEVER

I too prefer Vegas in some ways. I've always been a "timeline editor" (rather than a 3-point editor), I guess old Super8 cut/splice habits die hard, even in the digital domain. Vegas started as an audio-only program (I am an audio kind of guy) so it's fairly audio-centric and sits well with me.

FCP on the other hand is still lame-ass for doing audio work (though you could argue that is what Soundtrack Pro which is part of the package is for - and it is very good).

As for FCP vs Premiere --- well, the interfaces were pretty designed by the same guy.

I would say the learning curve between FCP <---> Vegas is initially quite steep, but only dependent upon your ability to remember keyboard commands and menu locations. Cut, dissolve, fade to black .... what else do you need ;-)
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Old July 8th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #6
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I found FCP a little tricky when I first used it - I'd jumped from Premiere on the PC which was quite straightforward.
I love FCP now and my speed with commands is improving as the creative technicalities.
I could do with obtaining a set of coloured command keys however (I think you can stickers for you keyboard which are really cheap).
And yes - the suite is ideal - the fact all these editors 'talk' to each other makes life a lot easier (and sound editing in FCP is very poor).
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Old July 8th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #7
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"Umm.....You do know that FCE is nowhere near what FCP 6 is right?? "

Well, not exactly true. If you are comparing the Suite to FCE then yes, of course, there are signficant differences... you don't get Motion or, in the FCS2, you don't get Color .. but with FCE 3 and higher you get Soundtrack and Livetype

In terms of comparing just FCP and FCE they are very similar. In terms of actual editing, they are pretty much identical. Same timeline, same effects, filters, etc. Day in day out they are very close

What you lose in FCE is things like a larger number of formats you can work in, batch capturing, Media Manager and so on. For some people, depending on your workflow, these can be significant .. for others, not so much. Current FCE 3.5 even gives you keyframable filters now.

I know nothing of Vegas so I can't compare. Premiere and FCP are similar, but just approach things differently. When using a new app its always good to try and get the previous app out of your head; nothing works exactly the same way

Vegas seems to have everyone excited about its ability to edit audio; again, I've never used it but, as a video editor, I am pretty happy with FCP, especially with Soundtrack included. Its ability to do fine EQing and sound correction is certainly limited; Soundsoap and Audacity help. Again, my emphasis is video, not music, so I don't the level of something like Pro Tools. If Vegas gives you that kind of level and your emphasis is sound then no, I don't FCP would compare.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM   #8
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I think the time I'll save on technical errors will be worth buying a $2,500 system and learning new software. I am concerned about the learning curve though.
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Old July 8th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #9
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I've never used Vegas before, but I came to Final Cut Pro after about 2 years of Adobe Premiere experience and it didn't take me too long to get used to it. Like with anything though, the more time you spend with it, the better you get. You'll probably start out doing simple edits, and as time goes by, you'll pick up little tricks and techniques, and you'll become more proficient. I don't think the learning curve is that bad at all.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 07:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
I found FCP a little tricky when I first used it - I'd jumped from Premiere on the PC which was quite straightforward.
I love FCP now and my speed with commands is improving as the creative technicalities.
I could do with obtaining a set of coloured command keys however (I think you can stickers for you keyboard which are really cheap).
And yes - the suite is ideal - the fact all these editors 'talk' to each other makes life a lot easier (and sound editing in FCP is very poor).
EZKeyboard. Custom made for a variety of editing applications.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #11
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IMO the keyboards with shortcuts on them aren't that useful.

A- You want to memorize all the shortcuts, in which case the shortcuts on the keyboard isn't that useful after that.
B- Some of the most useful shortcuts aren't on the keyboard. e.g. you can hit + plus sign or - and type in a number to edit that many frames forwards/backwards.

To duplicate a clip, option drag the click and let go of option.

2- FCP is a bit of a different mindset than Vegas.

You can search clips. You organize clips differently. The bins and the timeline are separate databases. Adding something into the timeline doesn't automatically put it in the media pool / browser. Changing stuff in the media pool / browser doesn't change the clip in the timeline.

The editing tools are kind of reversed... you select the tool with the right ripple behavior, then perform your edit. In Vegas, you edit and then ripple if necessary.

FCP has crtl+G for close gap, paste event attributes has more options.

Landmines: There are some bugs in FCP. Use auto-save. The Media Manager doesn't handle speed changes.
FCP doesn't like big sequences. Use small sequences and nest them into a master sequence.
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Old July 10th, 2007, 04:00 AM   #12
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FCP doesn't like big sequences. Use small sequences and nest them into a master sequence.
How big are we talking Glenn?
I've just worked on 5 seperate sequences all around an hour long without any issues.
However, the first few minutes of each were identical (intro piece) copied into each of the sequences (not sure if you would refer to that as nesting?). The remainder of the sequence was one, hour long performance...
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Old July 10th, 2007, 12:07 PM   #13
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Ok here goes-

Two weeks ago bought a MacBook Pro and Final Cut Studio 2 to Replace my aging P4 Vegas Based system. I have been using vegas professionally since 2003.

I'm going to keep this post very broad and general as I havent yet completed a full project in FCP, only used the various functions to learn my way around.

My initial impressions:

Vegas is faster- there is no doubt that for quick and dirty Vegas blows FCP out of the water- that being said, so far FCP has forced me to get out of the bad habits I developed using vegas, such as not properly logging my clips.

The canvas/viewer system is very nice- I like it better than the trimmer and project windows in vegas. The one caveat there is Vegas' quick selection of audio or video using tab is replaced with the destination controls, kinda clunky.

Clip and media management makes much more sense to me, it didnt at first- the first day I was groping around but now I find the nested bins make organization much easier.

Multicam Rocks, I mean big time. I use UltimateS for multicam in vegas, but I already prefer the system in FCP.

Vegas' Slo mo kills FCP's- I havent tried Motion's retiming yet. I did try Twixtor plugin- That plugin blows Vegas' retiming out of the water, but is pricey.

The included documentation for FCP is quite good. I would say that after about a week of playing with various parts of the system for a couple hours a day I am read to take on a full project in FCP.

I will post to this thread after I finish the project with more thoughts on the transition.

A this point I feel the change from Vegas to FCP has been pretty painless, but I have dog eared a ton of pages in the instruction books.

Glenn- Great way to say it in this post: "The editing tools are kind of reversed... you select the tool with the right ripple behavior, then perform your edit. In Vegas, you edit and then ripple if necessary."
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Old July 10th, 2007, 02:50 PM   #14
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Vegas on Boot Camp or Parallels

Is anyone using Vegas on Boot Camp or Parallels for Mac?
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Old July 10th, 2007, 03:16 PM   #15
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How big are we talking Glenn?
I've just worked on 5 seperate sequences all around an hour long without any issues.
However, the first few minutes of each were identical (intro piece) copied into each of the sequences (not sure if you would refer to that as nesting?). The remainder of the sequence was one, hour long performance...
Sorry, I should have qualified my statement.

FCP does not like an extreme number of cuts and markers in your sequences. ?300+? and it will start slowing down and you get that "preparing video for display" window.

Quote:
Vegas is faster- there is no doubt that for quick and dirty Vegas blows FCP out of the water- that being said, so far FCP has forced me to get out of the bad habits I developed using vegas, such as not properly logging my clips.
If you're working with DV, FCP can also do scene detection. It's under DV start/stop scene detect. IMO the traditional log&capture procedure is a waste of time.

Capture everything, scene detect, then log your clips.

On the other hand, if you are doing an offline/online then there are certain things to watch out for. When FCP re-captures a clip, it will capture the entire clip/scene... including footage outside the chunk you are using. If you did log&capture, it's not a big deal. But if you do things the "lazy" way, then some type of workaround is in order.

Quote:
Vegas' Slo mo kills FCP's- I havent tried Motion's retiming yet. I did try Twixtor plugin- That plugin blows Vegas' retiming out of the water, but is pricey.
FCP can do speed ramps like in Vegas.

Shake has optical flow retiming, which is slow but very good quality. Similar in concept to Twixtor. I'm not sure what Motion does.
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