WMV looks better than Mpeg4??? at DVinfo.net

Perrone Ford · April 3rd, 2008, 02:58 PM

A lot of the video I work with is necessarily dark or very dark in areas. I have noticed that when I compress the data to mpeg4, even at fairly high bitrates (for web use) I am getting a LOT of blocking in the dark areas. It makes no difference whether the deblocking option is on or not.

When I render the same file to WMV at the same bitrate, nearly NO blocking artifacts can be seen. It's literally night and day different. Are these algorithms that different?

I don't want to move to WMV, but I can't use mpeg4 if it's going to destroy my videos the way it's doing now.

I'd be VERY happy for any information on how to tell the mpeg4 encoders to NOT ignore or give so much less weight to darker areas.

Thanks,

-P

Aric Mannion · April 4th, 2008, 09:29 AM

I like to use h264 (.mov w/ best settings) I've been really happy with it ACCEPT for recently when I've done a black and white animation. If something on the screen isn't perfectly black it looks like TV static, and when a white subject moved across the screen there where awful artifacts. I'm guessing it just doesn't like to compress darks.
So your mp4 vids, are they h264? I prefer the .mov route with my compression methods, but only for light colorful stuff.
Have you tried .flv? ...not that you should.

Perrone Ford · April 4th, 2008, 09:46 AM

Yes, my footage was h264. And yes, it looks awful! No, I have not used flash, and I am not planning on using it. The tools to create it are either expensive or archaic/limited.

George Kroonder · April 4th, 2008, 02:07 PM

WMV has some advantages, but really H.264 can look awesome.

Sorenson Squeeze (v5 just out) does a great job on both PC and Mac. For the latter there is also dvcCast! (just released) that has interesting features, creates great H.264 and is pretty cheap.

Both products have 2 week trials. Knock yourself out!

George/

Perrone Ford · April 4th, 2008, 02:33 PM

I have generally been VERY pleased with H264. I've only noticed this problem on video with blacks that would likely fall between the end of the YUV colorspace and the end of RGB colorspace. Or at least that is what I am guessing. I guess I could add a 7.5 IRE setup to the video and render that way, but its going to be awfully soft for computer use.

Robert M Wright · April 5th, 2008, 05:37 PM

Which H.264 codec are you using?

Perrone Ford · April 5th, 2008, 06:27 PM

Sony as well as MainConcept.

Robert M Wright · April 5th, 2008, 07:28 PM

I need to get Vegas 8 installed (I've had it here for a few months and haven't even opened the box yet!). I'm curious how x264 compares to Sony's and Mainconcept's AVC codecs. I've been experimenting with x264, and am pretty impressed on the whole.

April 3rd, 2008, 02:58 PM	#1
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	WMV looks better than Mpeg4??? A lot of the video I work with is necessarily dark or very dark in areas. I have noticed that when I compress the data to mpeg4, even at fairly high bitrates (for web use) I am getting a LOT of blocking in the dark areas. It makes no difference whether the deblocking option is on or not. When I render the same file to WMV at the same bitrate, nearly NO blocking artifacts can be seen. It's literally night and day different. Are these algorithms that different? I don't want to move to WMV, but I can't use mpeg4 if it's going to destroy my videos the way it's doing now. I'd be VERY happy for any information on how to tell the mpeg4 encoders to NOT ignore or give so much less weight to darker areas. Thanks, -P

April 4th, 2008, 09:29 AM	#2
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	I like to use h264 (.mov w/ best settings) I've been really happy with it ACCEPT for recently when I've done a black and white animation. If something on the screen isn't perfectly black it looks like TV static, and when a white subject moved across the screen there where awful artifacts. I'm guessing it just doesn't like to compress darks. So your mp4 vids, are they h264? I prefer the .mov route with my compression methods, but only for light colorful stuff. Have you tried .flv? ...not that you should.

April 4th, 2008, 09:46 AM	#3
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Yes, my footage was h264. And yes, it looks awful! No, I have not used flash, and I am not planning on using it. The tools to create it are either expensive or archaic/limited.

April 4th, 2008, 02:07 PM	#4
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	WMV has some advantages, but really H.264 can look awesome. Sorenson Squeeze (v5 just out) does a great job on both PC and Mac. For the latter there is also dvcCast! (just released) that has interesting features, creates great H.264 and is pretty cheap. Both products have 2 week trials. Knock yourself out! George/

April 4th, 2008, 02:33 PM	#5
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	I have generally been VERY pleased with H264. I've only noticed this problem on video with blacks that would likely fall between the end of the YUV colorspace and the end of RGB colorspace. Or at least that is what I am guessing. I guess I could add a 7.5 IRE setup to the video and render that way, but its going to be awfully soft for computer use.

April 5th, 2008, 05:37 PM	#6
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Which H.264 codec are you using?

April 5th, 2008, 06:27 PM	#7
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Sony as well as MainConcept.

April 5th, 2008, 07:28 PM	#8
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I need to get Vegas 8 installed (I've had it here for a few months and haven't even opened the box yet!). I'm curious how x264 compares to Sony's and Mainconcept's AVC codecs. I've been experimenting with x264, and am pretty impressed on the whole.