Bit rate Poll at DVinfo.net

James Rulison · May 28th, 2002, 11:56 AM

Here is the question what bitrates must be covered for a video file to meet a large audiance? In other words what bitrates should you always include when creating Video for the web?

Here is my answer:

22 Kbps
36 Kbps
90 Kbps
290 Kbps

Best,
James

Rob Lohman · May 29th, 2002, 02:29 AM

That depends heavily on what compression system I would use.
I prefer quality over size (up until a certain point ofcourse). For
mpeg I'd use a large bitstream then for quicktime.... It also
depends for me on total size. If a movie is shorter I might use
a bit larger bitstream so that viewers enjoy a higher quality.
For a larger movie I might cut it down a bit to don't have
enormous files.

Keith Loh · May 29th, 2002, 03:08 PM

When I encode in my company's Clipstream Video format we provide:

500,
300,
256,
128,
and
40kpbs bit rates.

Adam Lawrence · May 30th, 2002, 11:30 AM

that all depends on what your doing..

i post my 30-60 second TV spots on the web at 240x190 Quicktime Sorenson.
at maybe 600kb. seems to make a clear picture plus maybe under a Meg
in file size.

Though if your showing anything longer i would recomend a quicktime
streaming format at a Sorenson 200-300kb.

I couldnt imagine a bit rate under 100kb...seems it would be impossible to see at a larger window size.

The Streaming format works the best for movies or full length videos..
since it plays while downloading.

You can also manually compress your video through any NLE system..
before formatting it, simply by cutting the frame rate down to 15fps
and applying a mosiac when possible.... this helps a ton for short videos

Keith Loh · May 30th, 2002, 01:04 PM

>I couldnt imagine a bit rate under 100kb...seems it would be >impossible to see at a larger window size.

People with bitrates under 100kb (modem users) must get used to viewing postage stamp-sized video or at least video with dropped frames. When you deal with webadvertising like the company I work for, that still makes sense because webadvertising already understands the low bandwidth model. So, a small talking head or 30 second commercials works great streaming.,

>The Streaming format works the best for movies or full length >videos..
>since it plays while downloading.

You would think so but movie and music video people are extremely picky about the quality of their video so they are loathe to provide a streaming video. They would rather people put their modems on download all night. My company is changing this attitude by working with marketing companies that understand web advertising. Those nerds who really want that 640x480 quality QuickTime will spend their time and bandwidth doing that. But that's a small component of advertising.

People here advertising their own work should realize that first they have to grab attention and pitch their message before they show off the quality. No one is going to go to their sites to wait on a download unless they first are attracted by something. Quick streaming videos can work that way.

Adam Lawrence · May 30th, 2002, 03:02 PM

true...
though when you are dealing with web and video, you should build it as if
monkeys are your audience....saying this, nonone with half the computer knowledge as you and I arent going to wait 2 hours for a 56m video to download (if they even know how) on a 56k.

I prefer a streaming video, and in the same sense a video in which does-not
view through a pop-up window. This due to the users reaction time...
The video plays or loads as soon as the user clicks the link, thus keeping the
attention of the user and insuring the video to be played in a sufficient fashion.

I always build my videos small.... at max 320x240 - sm 190x120.
even though these may seem small on the producers screen with our 1200x resolution size, some poeple are still topping 800x600..which in turn will make
the movies very viewable.

Big is not always better.

Keith Loh · May 30th, 2002, 04:20 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by _redone_ : true...
I prefer a streaming video, and in the same sense a video in which does-not
view through a pop-up window. This due to the users reaction time...
The video plays or loads as soon as the user clicks the link, thus keeping the
attention of the user and insuring the video to be played in a sufficient fashion.
-->>>

You might be interested to see our technology, then, because one of our selling points is that we do not break the user out of a web page to launch a player that may have someone else's advertising. We allow the web page designer to embed the video into the page itself. I've already mentioned our product so you can do a search for it on Google so I don't violate the huckster rule on this board.

Hopefully by the end of the month my company will be able to spring for the GL1 that I'm advocating for and we can do some DV cam -> our product comparisons.

whiterabbit · June 2nd, 2002, 06:53 PM

We dont bother with dial up postage stamp sized video. We encode in Flash 4 at 128kbps to 700kbps. 240 x180 to 800x600 and anything in between.

Keith Loh · June 3rd, 2002, 10:13 AM

When you say that you encode in Flash what is the underlying video codec, anyway?

whiterabbit · June 3rd, 2002, 05:09 PM

No video codec. Its just a video clip exported as sequences of images, either jpgs or png's (if you want a transperant background). The only thing that keeps it from being ordinary Flash is that we later optimize the swf with our own software to remove the limitations of the Flash player.

The viewer does not need anything besides flash4 (if using streaming sound) or higher.

check out my resume, its a good example of a short flash video within a flash media player (you dont need the player) embeded on the page. For grins take the poll, the link is on the player, so you can see how well Flash and video can mix with PHP and MySQL. The graphs at the end are created with action script in Flash.

If you could see what went into it you would laugh, its very basic.

cheers.
resume
mantaproductions.com/jorge

May 28th, 2002, 11:56 AM	#1
James Rulison Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chino Hills, CA Posts: 59	Bit rate Poll Here is the question what bitrates must be covered for a video file to meet a large audiance? In other words what bitrates should you always include when creating Video for the web? Here is my answer: 22 Kbps 36 Kbps 90 Kbps 290 Kbps Best, James

May 29th, 2002, 02:29 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	That depends heavily on what compression system I would use. I prefer quality over size (up until a certain point ofcourse). For mpeg I'd use a large bitstream then for quicktime.... It also depends for me on total size. If a movie is shorter I might use a bit larger bitstream so that viewers enjoy a higher quality. For a larger movie I might cut it down a bit to don't have enormous files. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 30th, 2002, 11:30 AM	#4
Adam Lawrence _redone_ Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 224	that all depends on what your doing.. i post my 30-60 second TV spots on the web at 240x190 Quicktime Sorenson. at maybe 600kb. seems to make a clear picture plus maybe under a Meg in file size. Though if your showing anything longer i would recomend a quicktime streaming format at a Sorenson 200-300kb. I couldnt imagine a bit rate under 100kb...seems it would be impossible to see at a larger window size. The Streaming format works the best for movies or full length videos.. since it plays while downloading. You can also manually compress your video through any NLE system.. before formatting it, simply by cutting the frame rate down to 15fps and applying a mosiac when possible.... this helps a ton for short videos __________________ Adam Lawrence eatdrink Media Las Vegas NV www.eatdrinkmedia.com

May 30th, 2002, 03:02 PM	#6
Adam Lawrence _redone_ Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 224	true... though when you are dealing with web and video, you should build it as if monkeys are your audience....saying this, nonone with half the computer knowledge as you and I arent going to wait 2 hours for a 56m video to download (if they even know how) on a 56k. I prefer a streaming video, and in the same sense a video in which does-not view through a pop-up window. This due to the users reaction time... The video plays or loads as soon as the user clicks the link, thus keeping the attention of the user and insuring the video to be played in a sufficient fashion. I always build my videos small.... at max 320x240 - sm 190x120. even though these may seem small on the producers screen with our 1200x resolution size, some poeple are still topping 800x600..which in turn will make the movies very viewable. Big is not always better. __________________ Adam Lawrence eatdrink Media Las Vegas NV www.eatdrinkmedia.com

May 29th, 2002, 03:08 PM	#3
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	When I encode in my company's Clipstream Video format we provide: 500, 300, 256, 128, and 40kpbs bit rates.

May 30th, 2002, 01:04 PM	#5
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	>I couldnt imagine a bit rate under 100kb...seems it would be >impossible to see at a larger window size. People with bitrates under 100kb (modem users) must get used to viewing postage stamp-sized video or at least video with dropped frames. When you deal with webadvertising like the company I work for, that still makes sense because webadvertising already understands the low bandwidth model. So, a small talking head or 30 second commercials works great streaming., >The Streaming format works the best for movies or full length >videos.. >since it plays while downloading. You would think so but movie and music video people are extremely picky about the quality of their video so they are loathe to provide a streaming video. They would rather people put their modems on download all night. My company is changing this attitude by working with marketing companies that understand web advertising. Those nerds who really want that 640x480 quality QuickTime will spend their time and bandwidth doing that. But that's a small component of advertising. People here advertising their own work should realize that first they have to grab attention and pitch their message before they show off the quality. No one is going to go to their sites to wait on a download unless they first are attracted by something. Quick streaming videos can work that way.

May 30th, 2002, 04:20 PM	#7
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	<<<-- Originally posted by _redone_ : true... I prefer a streaming video, and in the same sense a video in which does-not view through a pop-up window. This due to the users reaction time... The video plays or loads as soon as the user clicks the link, thus keeping the attention of the user and insuring the video to be played in a sufficient fashion. -->>> You might be interested to see our technology, then, because one of our selling points is that we do not break the user out of a web page to launch a player that may have someone else's advertising. We allow the web page designer to embed the video into the page itself. I've already mentioned our product so you can do a search for it on Google so I don't violate the huckster rule on this board. Hopefully by the end of the month my company will be able to spring for the GL1 that I'm advocating for and we can do some DV cam -> our product comparisons.

June 2nd, 2002, 06:53 PM	#8
whiterabbit Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 37	We dont bother with dial up postage stamp sized video. We encode in Flash 4 at 128kbps to 700kbps. 240 x180 to 800x600 and anything in between.

June 3rd, 2002, 10:13 AM	#9
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	When you say that you encode in Flash what is the underlying video codec, anyway?

June 3rd, 2002, 05:09 PM	#10
whiterabbit Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Miami Posts: 37	No video codec. Its just a video clip exported as sequences of images, either jpgs or png's (if you want a transperant background). The only thing that keeps it from being ordinary Flash is that we later optimize the swf with our own software to remove the limitations of the Flash player. The viewer does not need anything besides flash4 (if using streaming sound) or higher. check out my resume, its a good example of a short flash video within a flash media player (you dont need the player) embeded on the page. For grins take the poll, the link is on the player, so you can see how well Flash and video can mix with PHP and MySQL. The graphs at the end are created with action script in Flash. If you could see what went into it you would laugh, its very basic. cheers. resume mantaproductions.com/jorge