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Old August 13th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #16
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

In fact regulations on aerial photography here in the UK were only tightened up a couple of years ago. If you are not doing AP then nothing much has changed since I flew model aeroplanes as a kid & legally you may fly a model plane of up to 7kg pretty much anywhere you like as long as you do it safely & avoid restricted zones & don't fly too high. However with the new regulations brought in to the UK in January 2010 additional restrictions have been brought in regarding any model aircraft equipped for data collection e.g. with a camera on-board which may not fly
a)over or within 150 metres of any congested area;
(b)over or within 150 metres of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons;
(c)within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft

This applies when you are doing it for fun not profit. It's all a bit ludicrous as an AR.Drone can be bought from the Apple Store & you can fly it round your living room but as soon as it flies out the window & into the garden it becomes subject to the Air Traffic Order & theoretically renders the pilot subject to a fine of up to 2500 if flown within 50m of the house next door.

If you are doing any 'Aerial Work' which includes any form AP for payment or as part of a commercial project then you need to get a licence from the Civil Aviation Authority submit flight plans etc.

Last edited by Nigel Barker; August 13th, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 07:28 AM   #17
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

I wonder if the people that go out and buy this 279 RC Parrot AR Drone 2 (the new version) know about those regs?

Video quality is not stella from the better front viewing cam, appaulingly bad from the bottom (landing) cam - but at the price, bear in mind the claim that the thing is really easy to fly/keep stable and stream video from - they'll sell like hot cakes!

Link to the official website here. Lots of demo videos on how it works/flys etc.

http://ardrone2.parrot.com/

Basic summary of the specs here:

Camera: 720p 30fps HD
Lens: 92-degree diagonal wide angle
Processor: 1 GHz 32-bit ARM Cortex A8
Weight: 380 grams with outdoor hull; 420 grams with Styrofoam indoor hull
Motors: 4 brushless 14.5-watt, 28,500 RPM inrunner motors
Battery: 3 elements 1,000 mA/hour LiPo rechargeable
Price: 279

Direct link to a UK demo video on Gizmodo below. Looks like this guy is risking a big fine!:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/08/par...ur-neighbours/
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Old August 14th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #18
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Andy, I already own an AR.Drone 2 & have posted some shots that I took with it on a paying gig over on this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/new-micr...one-2-0-a.html. The rolling shutter jello is so bad that the "HD" video is unusable but stills are not so bad for showing on the web. It's also possible to attach a better quality camera (GoPro or similar) but it struggles a bit with the extra weight.

I really cannot see the CAA taking anyone to court for flying a toy even if it's paid aerial work. If it's a 2000 quadrotor that can lift a DSLR I wouldn't be so sure as just on safety grounds they may want to make an example.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #19
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

I was unaware of that thread and your clips and comments in it - looks interesting - I'll have a good read of it now.
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Old August 17th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #20
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson View Post
I was unaware of that thread and your clips and comments in it - looks interesting - I'll have a good read of it now.
I know, and that's what I like about this forum -- I constantly get lost (often for hours) reading old & interesting threads. The ratio of useful info on this forum is staggering. Mr. Hurd certainly got something unique going here.

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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:35 AM   #21
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
Andy, I already own an AR.Drone 2 & have posted some shots that I took with it on a paying gig .........
I really cannot see the CAA taking anyone to court for flying a toy even if it's paid aerial work. If it's a 2000 quadrotor that can lift a DSLR I wouldn't be so sure as just on safety grounds they may want to make an example.
You have an accident with it and you can bet your business that the CAA will take you to court and any liability insurance you may have will most likely be void as it won't cover illegal activities. Especially as you have already stated publicly that you have used an RC aircraft for paying work and you know it to be illegal.

Just because it may be a toy it does not make it any different in the eyes of the law. Just as riding a "toy" mini-moto motorbike on the road is just as illegal as any other un acceptable vehicle.

It might not weigh much but it could still take out an eye if it fell on someone from any height.

I do think that the law sucks. It will make people use the drones under the radar and uninsured. It would be better if the law did allow for restricted use of approved devices provided the user carried adequate insurance. At least that way the accidents that will almost certainly occur will at least be backed by insurance.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 01:23 PM   #22
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
You have an accident with it and you can bet your business that the CAA will take you to court and any liability insurance you may have will most likely be void as it won't cover illegal activities. Especially as you have already stated publicly that you have used an RC aircraft for paying work and you know it to be illegal.
I don't know if you followed the link that I posted but the video we created for the client was of a villa in the South of France. The law there is different & in any case flying in France is of no concern to the CAA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
It might not weigh much but it could still take out an eye if it fell on someone from any height.
Have you ever seen an AR.Drone? It is really tiny, mostly expanded polystyrene & very light. It is not going to take anyone's eye out. There is a real difference between this toy & the electric powered multi-rotor machines used by enthusiasts that are capable of lifting a DSLR let alone those petrol engined model helicopters that are as safe as of a flying rotary lawnmower.

Last edited by Nigel Barker; August 21st, 2012 at 02:28 AM.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #23
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

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Old February 25th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #24
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

I think this is long overdue and know people won't like that comment. Three times I have been in the R44 that I have shot aerials out of for 8 years, and we have had close calls with RC. I do not what to stop that part of my business and am tired of untrained operators just hacking it up.

Train operators, certify them, MUST be insured properly, and restrict where they can fly.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #25
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Paul...

"I have shot aerials out of for 8 years, and we have had close calls with RC. I do not what to stop that part of my business and am tired of untrained operators just hacking it up."


and just think 8 years ago someone was calling YOU the " Hack without any experience".... Wow..
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #26
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Ray....

An R44 is a helicopter. People in a helicopter.
Just a little perspective.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #27
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Here's another take on the legality:

Photography For Real Estate US Airspace Is Closed To Unmanned Drones Doing Real Estate Photography
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #28
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

If they go the way its looking right now any operators will be required to have at least a private pilot license to fly RC for hire.

Hopefully that will weed out some folks that are not well suited for the work.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #29
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Ray Bell you are out of line in my opinion with that comment. When I started shooting out of full size helicopters I did not hack it up I was not flying the machine, I am the camera operator with a pilot that at that time had 4000 hrs. I was shooting for Discovery and they kept hiring me back for years as all my clients do.

When I say hacking up I am talking about filming from a full size helicopter R44 flying a job at 400 feet. We have contacted all the towers in the area, all the police, homeland security, coast guard, state police and then we fly the set route. While up a RC helicopter cuts us off and we just avoid crashing into it, and if you don't think that RC pilot is a hack you have a problem.

Please check your facts before you call me a hack!
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Old February 26th, 2013, 01:45 PM   #30
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Re: RC aerials illegal says FAA

Let's all straighten up and fly right. Thanks in advance,
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