Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1
 

Looking for the real scoop on whether this unit works with my camera. the Focus website compatibility chart doesn't list the Canon under this product. Maybe because it's new and they haven't updated their charts yet? In addition, I need to confirm whether the tape mechanism on the Canon must still be used with this unit? I use the firewire port on the Canon to record to a firewire capable DVD recorder and or a Sony DVCAM deck without rolling tape. Is this possible with the FS H200?

David,

I purchased the FS-H200 recently to pair with my XH-A1 and everything seems to work fine. There are three control modes: Normal, External and Synchro. Normal is where recording is initiated on the device. External, which is recommended, allows recording to be initiated on the camera. Synchro is sort of the fallback mode that works for older cameras. It requires recording to tape concurrently. I got Normal working pretty quickly. Only just got External to work tonight (been fiddling with it just a bit for the past several days) after realizing "DV Control" was turned off on the camera ... Oops! The company probably hasn't run tests with a good variety of cameras, which would explain the inaccurate / conservative compatibility chart. You'll also notice that they only recommend using the Sandisk Extreme III 16 and 32 GB compact flash cards. Now, that's what I happen to be using but I'm sure cards rated at equivalent or better speeds from other manufacturers won't have a problem.

I haven't had a chance to test the unit extensively but so far I'm feeling pretty good about my purchase. I just hope Focus will do what they did for the FS-C line and add on-device video playback through a firmware upgrade. The color screen should be put to better use!

I'm currently in the process of setting up a blog about my cinematography / video interests and promise to write a detailed review of the FS-H200 for it when I can.

-David

hey thx for the reply.
when u mention "older cameras" are u referring to the original A1 or some other brand/model?

oops and BTW
 

btw,
what do u know about the supposed 2 gig file size issue? Does the unit start a new clip every 10 minutes or so? If so, how do u link them up in post without missing frames etc...?

thx for any reply
d

If you use FAT format you will have this issue. If you use UDF you can get around the 2GB gap when using M2T as the file source. I cannot say if it removes the limit when using Quicktime files though.

yep, that's what I'd be using, Quicktime as I use Final Cut Pro

The newer (FC2?) supports M2Ts. I should have a chance this saturday to try and do a quick 10 minute record in the Quicktime format and let you know if the file gets broken up.

alas,
I'm using ver 5.1.4 which is ver 1. Apple dropped basic color correction and added Color to FCS 2. I didn't upgrade. Now with FCS 3, they've dropped LiveType, which is a quick but powerful text generator. Your now forced to learn the complex program called Motion.

I have the XH-A1, not the XH-A1S. And again, it works fine.

I should clarify why External mode is important. The XH-A1 doesn't at all indicate any recording is going on while the FS-H200 is recording. If you're in External mod, the FS-H200 will start recording when you hit record on the camera. This sort of reassures you that the two devices are speaking properly. If it's extremely important that you're capturing footage (say, you're shooting an event or paying actors / crew by the hour), I'd stick with Synchro mode or hit pause and check each clip periodically. It's pretty easy to get the FS-H200 to playback into the XH-A1 to do this.

Firestore compatibility
 

I have a Canon XH-A1...and I want to buy a firestore fs-h200. Do all the frame rates record onto the FS-H200, such as 24f, 30f, 60i? Do they playback from the firestore through the camera? Do you set the firestore to record at HDV 1080i then record any of the fps? Thanks ahead of time

also with the xha1, if you are recording tape and roll past the end, will the fs h200 continue recording and if so, are any frames dropped when the tape ends?

Same question as Joe...
 

I have the same questions as Joe. Has there been an answer here or elsewhere?

Thanks,
Paul

I have the FS-H200 and it works a lot like the FS-5 units.

Yes, the files will play back through firewire on the camera.

The FS-H200, like the FS-5 only records:

Quicktime HD (NTSC):
1080/60
720/30

But the M2T format setting will record all the 24f, 30f and 720/60 type of formats.

Been shooting 1080/60 QT in both FAT mode and UDF modes without any issues.

Note: There is no missing footage between the clip breaks when shooting 1080/60 QT/FAT mode. Just drop the clips into Final Cut Pro and stat editing.

Jonas, Thanks for the response...
 

This will work great for me since I mainly shoot 24f or 30f. I should be able to use Clipwrap to bring the clips into FCP.

I too am interested in getting this and i shoot at 24f on my xh a1. So it can in mp2t but not in quicktime. So when you bring it in to fcp how would it work, im guessing have to rewrap into a quicktime. If thats case how much time extra does this take because if takes a while to import then rewrap then i guess no point and should just get fsc

Although I have the JVC HD-110 (which isn't listed as compatible with the FS-H200 either), I do use QT (720P30) and the QT files definitely exceed (up to just under 32g) the 2 gig limit.
As for wrapping the m2t files, Tim Dashwood has a utility for that listed as a sticky in the JVC GY-HD forum. BTW, although my JVC HD-110 shouldn't be considered an "older" camera, I haven't been able to use External mode with it. Syncro works fine though, and having a tape backup is exactly what I want.
HTH,
Ed

other DTE units...
 

I have a sony MRC1K that I have been using with my Canon XHA1. It has worked very well at all frame rates and formats. I am shopping around for another DTE device because I just purchases a refurbished Canon XLH1. My possible choices are another MRC1K, the Firestore FS-200 or the Datavideo DN-60 (which is supposed to start shipping this month) . The MRC1K will continue recording after tape runs out. You can bring in the footage through log and transfer in FCP or you can download the clips directly and then use a utility like clipwrap to rewrap the files as HDV .mov files. I am trying to find out more about the Datavideo DN-60 . There is a very good thread on the MRC1K on DVinfo worth checking out:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr...ml#post1482589

Does clipwrap work on the mac, and is it very time consuming?

Do you still need tape to record?
 

Most of my questions have been answered, but before I order the H200...

Does the A1 have to have a tape in it when you record to the FS-H200? If so, what happens when you reach the end of the tape?

I'm about to record a show that is 1 hour 45 minutes with no intermission. I want to be sure I can just record without having to swap anything.

Thanks,
Howard

you don't need a tape in the camera to record to the FS. The tape is a backup if you use it. That being said, I've experienced a dropout or two every time I use the FS. Rolling a tape simultaneously has saved me. Don't know what happens when the tape reaches the end however.

Thanks for the info. I'm curious if the "no tape" warning flashes the whole time too.

I'm surprised that there is still drop outs. I experience those with tapes all the time, I would have thought that direct to digital would have stopped that. e.g. I thought it was the tape.

I guess I will order it and play with amd without tape before the show to see what happens at the end of a tape.

I use the FS-V with the A1 (similar software I would assume) .. at the end of the tape, if you set the firestore recording manually (e.g. no syncro), such that you press record on the firestore then initiate record as usual on your canon, the firestore will continue to record even after the tape ends.

when I first got the firestore, I thought the camera had dropped (e.g. not sent) approx 10 frames to the firestore when my tape ended. however I just recorded a show the other night and I don't believe I got this missing video - my external audio recorder and video were exactly in sync at long past when the tape ended.

It could have been that the frames were not sent (in my original use) when I put in a new tape and pressed record - I think that's what happened (e.g. when the camera initiates the tape record function, it must have a gap of about 10 frames that aren't sent on firewire). the other night when I didn't get any missing video frames, I did not put in a new tape, I just let it keep running on the firestore. at least that gave me 1 hour of backup on tape. if you put in a new tape, be careful when you initiate record since you may get dropped frames (that won't be on tape either).

interestingly, eventhough I didn't get the CV model of the firestore (e.g. for the canon), the canon still shows on the display when the firestore is recording (red dot - separate from the tape indicator). although I believe what you don't get with that is the info on time left on the firestore, etc.

overall I've been very happy with the FS-V and the A1! (would have liked something higher resolution using the analog output of the camera however it was just too complex to go with another solution) .. but the direct to disk is not only a real time saver but is so convenient, makes things really easy.

Dave, thank you for this post.

I will probably end up doing exactly what you say. Just not change tapes.
The show I will be recording is Chorus Line with no intermission. I do have a weekend before the show to play and I will try everything, but I'm guessing I will end up doing what you mentioned.

Thanks again,
Howard

A few more question
 

Since I won't have my Firestore until Friday I have a couple more very specific questions.

Does the "No tape" "red tape icon" flash then entire time you are recording when not using tape?
Do you even press (how) record on the camera when not using tape. Or just set the camera up for recording and press record on the firestore?
I'm thinking I should disable auto-shut off when recording without a tape. Is this true?

All three of those question apply to no tape, or using one tape as the first hour back up as you mentioned.

Thanks again,
HOward

on my hv-20 (for example), I record to the firestore and use no tape. Just turn on the camera & set it up, disable auto shut-off (as you say) and then hit record on the firestore. The camera displays as you would expect, and as it would if it were just on but nothing was happening.

on the A1, for example, when I record with tape and then let it run past the tape end, you will see the warning as you get to the end of the tape, yellow icon, then red tape icon with flashing warning message ("tape end"). the tape runs out and the message goes away, but I believe the icon stays red (not flashing) and the tape counter stays as it was at the end of the tape. you'll continue to see the red dot next to the USB icon on the monitor indicating that the firestore is continuing to record.

** important ** : I always make my physical connection between the firestore and the camera with both devices off. then turn on the firestore and then turn on the camera. DON'T plug the USB into the camera with the camera powered on. (stories of USB damage that way on the camera - better safe than sorry).

Thanks again Dave.

When you say USB, you do mean firewire on the A1, right?

yes, firewire on the camera and USB to the PC .. same point though about connecting when power is off (I guess I was thinking about the USB but you're right, it's really for both ).. on the PC connection I just make sure my firestore is powered off when I make the physical connection, then poiwer up the firestore

Got it and thanks for all the information.

Removing CF cards
 

David,
Got my FS today, still reading the manual before I do anything.
They include two tabe to attach to CF cards to make them "easier" to remove.
Did you do that?

I don't have any CF cards with me at work (where I had it shipped), so I can't tell how hard it is to rremove them.

Thanks,
Howard

well, my firestore is the hard drive version so I'm hoping one of the guys with the CF card version will answer

Mounting it - Using it
 

How do you mount (use) it?

I got the cradle but there doesn't seem to be a "right" place to put it with the A1. As of now I have the cradle mounted on the tripod arm, but it is not super secure and doesn't seem right.

Thanks,
Howard

If it's the same holder I got with my unit, it's almost useless. it's a well intentioned but impractical design. It's intended to mount on the camera handle not the tripod. Having to take it apart with a tiny allen head wrench and screw it to the FS is not what you should be doing in the field or when setting up for an inside job.
I'm considering coming up with a simple idea for a tripod mount and going to someone and have them make it for me. Haven't figured out just what I want yet.

For the time being, I use whatever is available to set the FS on top of within easy reach of the firewire cable.

Thanks, that is what I was afraid of.

I guess I will leave it mounted to my tripod arm and use some gaffers tape to make it more secure.
Cause it is a real pain to take it off and put it back on.

I use a bracket1 with the A1 and the firestore .. I removed the heavy clamp part from the firestore bracket then drilled 2 holes in the remaining part and mounted that to the bracket1, so that the firestore faces to the operator side of the camera so I can watch it while I am recording .. I'll have to take a photo of it .. the clamp part of the firestore bracket is *really* heavy which gives it a solid feel but adds a lot of weight and I find it impractical ..

Never thought of modifying it.
Looking forward to a picture.

Thanks.

Re: Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1
 

Thought I would post an update.
Since I got the FS-H200 I have used it about 15 times for shows up to 2 1/2 hours.
I've never had one single drop out and even though I have an extra 32GB card and extra battery I have not needed them. Though for the show that ran 2 1/2 hours, I was thinking of swapping.

I still have it mounted on the tripod arm in the cradle. What a pain. I wish "focus" would do something about that.

I've stopped using tapes in my A1 and just use them in the HV20, which is my fixed full stage shot secondary camera. If the FS-H200 was cheaper, I would get one for that and stop using tapes all together.

Since I used to use the top of the line Pani tapes, I figured I have save a couple hundred bucks, but that is not why I got the FS. I was hoping for no drop outs and am very happy in that reguard.

I use quicktime mode and have found that I need to use a de-interlace filter when I bring the mov files into Final Cut 7. Not a big deal except that it does increase render time.

Re: Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1
 

Hello David -

Last week I purchased the FSH200 and I am going through the same ordeal as you have gone through. I got the FSH200 working in normal, I cannot control it through the camera (Canon XH-A1). Following your post I noticed that also in my case the camera DV control was off, and I turned it on, but it did not make any difference. I also tried syncro, but it did not seem to work. Any idea what else is wrong with my system?

Grateful for you help - Yair.

Re: Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1
 

Yair, did you work it out?
You need to turn the DV control on and set the FS to External (Operation Menu : Control) you will see an E in a box on the recording screen, this works perfectly with both XH A1 and the A1s.
The deal with the Canons, as far as I can tell, they will only run m2t files. The CF version I believe will work for all formats. There again as I do not use FC ergo QT files, I could be wrong.

Re: Firestore FS H200 and Canon XH-A1
 

Thanks all...bought a FS-H200 16 months ago and used it for awhile, then went back to mostly tapes since the quality of the F@-H200 didn't seem as high (user error, I know). I tried using it again 5 months ago and couldn't get the video to record to the Flash drive...now I learned about the DV Control switch. THANK YOU!

I typically shoot in HDV 60i and wondered if somebody else who uses these settings could send me their complete FS-H200 settings for me to use and try this again. I've got some work coming up that will require quick transfer and I need to get this working properly. Thanks for any help you can give!