FS-4 Pro HD M2T file Not Usable by FCP

[Frank Yap]

I don't think that the FS-4 will be capable of encoding with any HDV codec. I use Canopus HQ which requires a dual core or dual processor. Unless Focus comes up with a dual core processor in their unit it may be possible.

[Sean McHenry]

Same issues for Avid. I think most of us are waiting to find out if the HDV version will record in Avid native MXF. MXF is the newer Avid format and is supposed to be backward compatible with OMFI. Rather I should say that the Avid will still import OMFI but I believe it too is now converted for MXF.

I'll be standing by.

Sean McHenry

[Brandon Fullmer]

I'm new to the forum but I've joined this forum mainly because I found an area to discuss DTE technology with other users.

I own an FS4 Pro, and I purchased the HD upgrade. Like one or two of you I've just discovered the incompatibility to edit the HDV footage in Final Cut Pro 5, that was captured with the FS4 Pro.

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but, the near future solution will most likely come from Apple. This past week I talked with a tech support rep. at Focus Enhancements. According to this tech at Focus, who sounded completely up to speed with the problem or issue at hand, she said that Focus has collaborated with Apple, and Apple is currently working on a version of QuickTime that will allow editing the file type created by the FS4 PRO HD after recording HDV. She added that their timeline is sketchy but a hopeful release is due within 2 to 3 more months, mainly February or March of '06.

So, according to this solution, once QuickTime has the ability to work with the file type it should be a simple update to QuickTime and possibly a minor update to Final Cut Pro 5 (via software update) to then be able to edit the HDV file footage from the FS4 Pro HD.

It’s a waiting game but I’ve had to tell myself that this comes by way of new and unproven technology.

I hope this information helps.

[Riley Harmon]

just mount the firestore as a drive (if that is possible) then copy the m2t files over and use MPEGSTREAMCLIP program available from apple downloads for free to convert to DVCPRO HD, doesnt take long to convert on my lil ole powerbook

[Daniel Kohl]

Hi Brandon,

Welcome to the forum. And thanks for the input

I just visited the download page for the software suggested by Brandon:

About MPEG Streamclip
A converter for MPEG-1/2/4, QuickTime files and transport streams (.ts and .m2t). For MPEG-2 it works together with the Apple MPEG-2 Playback Component and provides high-quality conversion of movies into several useful formats for Mac OS X. It is compatible with Apple Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro and Roxio Toast 6/7.

It's kind of funny how information like this takes so long to trickle down - this looks like the short term solution to some frustrated individuals out there.

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Riley Harmon

just mount the firestore as a drive (if that is possible) then copy the m2t files over and use MPEGSTREAMCLIP program available from apple downloads for free to convert to DVCPRO HD, doesnt take long to convert on my lil ole powerbook

you are totally re-encoding all of the footage by doing that, so it is not an ideal solution.

apple needs to fully support mpeg2, period... as brandon indicated, it sounds like they are finally getting around to doing that?(thanks for the update)... this isn't an issue of "new and unproven technology", rather, it's apple seriously lagging in providing timely support for macs... some pc editors have had native m2t capability for awhile now.

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Daniel Kohl

About MPEG Streamclip
A converter for MPEG-1/2/4, QuickTime files and transport streams (.ts and .m2t). For MPEG-2 it works together with the Apple MPEG-2 Playback Component and provides high-quality conversion of movies into several useful formats for Mac OS X. It is compatible with Apple Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro and Roxio Toast 6/7.
It's kind of funny how information like this takes so long to trickle down - this looks like the short term solution to some frustrated individuals out there.

Daniel did MPEGSTREAMCLIP preserve timecode?

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

you are totally re-encoding all of the footage by doing that, so it is not an ideal solution.

apple needs to fully support mpeg2, period... as brandon indicated, it sounds like they are finally getting around to doing that?(thanks for the update)... this isn't an issue of "new and unproven technology", rather, it's apple seriously lagging in providing timely support for macs... some pc editors have had native m2t capability for awhile now.

Dan an interesting perspective. Some NLE's are opting to transcode to a frame based editing codec in any case (Avid) as editing MPEG2 is clunky at best (given that everytime you make an edit in the middle of a GOP you have to render and split that GOP).

Don't get me wrong - I agree that ideally Apple should support MPEG2 properly. You should have that option if you want to work in native HDV (aka Vegas and PP). However the solution suggested makes sense given that frame based editing requires so much less computing power - what you lose in transcoding, you'll probably make up in a big edit, plus you get the added benefit of using a codec that has a superior colour space and better multi-generation performance. Better still use Cineform on a PC and get uprezzed 10bit :-)

[John Yamamoto]

Hi folks,
i tried mixed all m2t from net,HDVxDV( mac capturing software) capDVHS( freeware) avid, vegas.
seems MAC is for MAC, avid is only for avid only.
so far only vegas can only m2t from both mac and pc,but not MXF from avid,
yet to try avid with m2t from mac and capDVHS but wil do so.

take a look of capDVHS it mention about the header, and i selected it to make virtualdubMpeg2 to read it.

JY

[Sean McHenry]

I can tell you for a fact that Avid Xpress Pro HD 5.2.1 can re-import m2t files. I can also tell you that the JVC version of the transport stream uses a 6 "frame" GOP from the HDV gear. This is different than the 15 "frame" GOP used in other HDV flavors. This may be a factor in blending various m2t files in a timeline.

Like I say, we can at least archive to DVD, the m2t files as files now and bring them back in if we find a need to re-edit. Kind of nice actually.

Sean McHenry

[Craig Moreschini]

the same post twice

[Craig Moreschini]

I'm slightly confused by your workflow.

So, you capture your HDV using the Black Magic Card (is this through the camera firewire? since you're not using a DVC-PRO deck or other HD deck).

Or, are you capturing normally, then you're rendering using the card? I'm a little confused what the card is doing without a deck, or maybe I'm misreading what it says about the card or am looking at the wrong card, etc.

The benefit is, if I'm getting what you're saying, that the render times at quicker, right? Because the other HD formats are more native to FCP.

I have a Z1U 2 GHz G5 with 7 GB SDRAM, and it doesn't seem that slow, but maybe I'm not paying attention or something.

I understand the color space thing, but how are you gaining if it is being captured in HDV in the first place, or can you capture it through the card before it is, is it being recompressed on firewire capture? Or is this strictly for the benefit of FX rendering, does the card produce better rendering, is that it?

Well, this is what I was getting until you mentioned using anamorphic DV for editing, and then I'm thinking that maybe your recapturing later, or are you keeping these HD copies for your online edit too.

I'm not trying to be difficult, as I liked all the work you did talking be out of buying a FS-4 Pro drive for FCP, but I am not sure I understand which card you have and what it does without a deck. I also have a large project and am not looking to either offline in anamorphic, or use all of the space of uncompressed until I've cut it down more. I mean, if I'm not gaining much with the card capturing from the camera, the loss of maybe re-compression in HDV (if that happens through firewire), why can I just re-render the timeline in the end (using the card if it is somehow produces better renders) as DVCPRO or whatever.

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

Joe,

My new workflow will be thus:

- Shoot to tape in HDV using my Z1.
- Convert the clips during capture to either DVCPRO-25, 50 or HD using a Black Magic card.
- Edit/cut in the converted format.

The reasons for going this route are twofold:

1. Editing in HDV would put too much demand on processor power and "simple" renders like transitions would take significantly longer than SD-DV. The DVCPRO format is "native" to FCP since version 4 especially the HD formats and take no more processing power/time than normal DV.

2. The 4:2:2 pulldown is significantly better color space than the 4:1:1 standard for DV.

There is at least one commercial production that I'm aware of, "Hands on HDV", which used this same technique of shooting HDV and downconverting in DV-widescreen for editing. It looks fabulous. The content of the DVD is a tutorial on the Sony FX1 and Z1 cameras and was shot entirely on the Z1.

[Colin McFadden]

Been playing around a bit with some of the sample m2t files floating around. Rather than rendering out to DVCProHD as mentioned earlier, it seems like if you use Mpeg Streamclip's "Demux to Unscaled M2V and AIFF" feature (which only takes a few seconds), you can drop the resulting M2V file into FCP and it'll play it OK (it finds the AIFF on its own). However, when you drop it into a sequence, it still wants to render the sequence - I suppose because it's convinced that the m2v clip's codec is totally and completely different from HDV. It may be possible to go one step further and convince FCP/Quicktime that they're really the same. Still a kludge, but I'm going to poke around in the file format a bit more and see if just some bit-twiddling could make it work without any rerendering...

[Curtis Guise]

why use Demuxing? this is what I did and there is no rendering needed when using the .mov created in an HDV project in FCP.

in MPEGstream click file, Export Quicktime, then for compression chose Apple HDV 1080i60, for quality slide it to 100%, for frame size make it 1440x1080 (unscaled), I left all other settings alone.

I also noticed that if MPEGstreamclip says there is a timecode break you should chose to fix timecode break under the Edit menu. It only takes seconds to do if its a short file, then the export to Quicktime should be faster.

[Colin McFadden]

Because when you export to quicktime, you're recompressing the video and introducing some generational loss. If you could make the demuxed files work in FCP, there'd be no generational issues. Unfortunately, the render step currently causes the same issue.

Course, come March the FS4 will record to QT, so we won't have to worry.