Canon XH A1 and Firestore

Tom Houston · March 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM

Doug,

$20 says the code your 100GB model is running is different than what Focus and Canon are getting ready to release now.

Tom

Doug Tessler · March 20th, 2007, 09:56 PM

I have the latests software that I got from focus today so you are wrong again !
Doug

version 2.0.0.04092006:
- Native QuickTime HDV DTE format.
- HD TC display and restripe capabilities in Native QuickTime HDV DTE format
- MXF OPatom DV DTE format.
- Added ORGANIZE MXF for MXF OPatom support.
- Added HDV TC TYPE menu functionality for HDV TC playback.
- Improved DV FORMAT QUICKTIME 24P compatibility.
- Improved disk handling.
- Improved HD playback functionality.
- Handle 999 clip limit properly.

Doug Tessler · March 20th, 2007, 10:03 PM

FS-C version 2.1 beta version 2.1.0 04112206

Thank you for participating in the FS-C version 2.1 beta test program. We appreciate your help!

Attached is the first 2.1 beta release version. Please upgrade your unit as per the instructions in the manual. If you need to return to the current shipping version of software, simply load version 2.0 (also attached). Per the beta agreement, do not distribute this software.

New Features
When in HDV record mode and QUICKTIME is the selected format, it is now possible to record 1080i/24F, 25F and 30F streams to disk in QuickTime format.

sincerely

Doug T

Send me a six pack you lose ! lol

Tom Houston · March 21st, 2007, 07:15 AM

Doug,

Let’s get real here. Beta is called Beta for a reason. I means the software is in a phase where bugs are still being worked out and it hasn’t yet reached production status. The code may be complete and ready to go but I'm hearing from reliable sources that there is an "agreement" of some sort that Canon and Focus are still working out and that is the reason the FS-C 60GB model is not shipping right now which is a good thing as I'm not interested in a "patched" FS-C with Beta code. Understand, your Beta code may very well be the final product but I'd rather have it straight from Focus/Canon.

Tom

Harry Bromley-Davenport · March 21st, 2007, 01:26 PM

There seems to be a great deal of confusion about which firestore model does what. And, apparently, the manufacturers themselves are not too reliable about their own specs.

Can some kind and knowledgeable soul inform me what my options are for use with my Canon XLH1?

I also did hear at one stage that these units are kinda noisy - perhaps too noisy for use at close quarters for quiet dialog in filmed drama. Could anyone be so kind as to give me an opinion on this?

Many thanks,

Best

Harry

James Jackson · March 29th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Is the FS-C even available right now? Where is it in stock!?!?

Jay Rodriguez · March 29th, 2007, 07:26 PM

i couldn't find it anywhere about a month ago

Farishad Latjuba · April 14th, 2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt McEwen

QuickTime HDV 1080i/24F and 1080i/30F support will only be available on the FS-C model.
Matt

What about PAL version? 25F on the FS-C model? Or even better, the model that can receive 24F, 25F & 30F.

Nathan Quattrini · April 30th, 2007, 10:22 AM

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=434414

My question is why can`t they do timelapse in HDV? Seems pretty bad to mix DV timelapsed footage with HDV footage if they are for the same project

Colin McFadden · April 30th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Because the HDV video structure, with 15 frames grouped together and inherently interrelated, makes it very hard (computationally) to get a single frame. The Firestore is a "dumb" device - it doesn't do any actual decoding (and reencoding) of the video stream, which would be required to do a time lapse with HDV. They just write data to disk.

So yeah, it's easy in DV where you can extract any frame individually, not so easy in HDV.

Alex Leith · April 30th, 2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Quattrini

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=434414

My question is why can`t they do timelapse in HDV? Seems pretty bad to mix DV timelapsed footage with HDV footage if they are for the same project

Because HDV is an interframe compression codec. Frames are grouped into GOPs (12 frames) which all refer to each other to build a complete moving image. Thus HDV cannot be used for timelapse recording, because you have to record the GOP all at once.

John Richard · May 2nd, 2007, 09:38 AM

From my experience with the XLH1 and FS4ProHD and Edius is that it works great in DV --- but in HDV it is problematic.

The FSC firestore is the model now made specifically for the XLH1 (and presumably the A1 and G1). But I have no experience with the FS-C. I am trying to find someone who has experienced reliable HDV results in all frame rates and in both m2t and QT file formats.

Bottom line, if you are going to make the leap with a Firestore for the Canon, stick with the FS-C.

Wade Hanchey · July 3rd, 2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Richard

Bottom line, if you are going to make the leap with a Firestore for the Canon, stick with the FS-C.

What's the advantage of the FS-C over the FS-4 Pro HD model? The only thing I understand is the Quicktime issue with the FS-4. I have the A1 and am using Vegas 7. Do I need the Quicktime format for anything? I see a price difference in the two models and don't want to spend the extra dollars for something I don't need. Vegas can work with QT files. Would there be any advantage to recording in 1080i QT over .m2t files? I've read of an issue with transferring the .m2t files to PC. Is there a similar issue with 1080i QT files or would that be reason enough to get the FS-C if it solves that issue?

John Richard · July 5th, 2007, 12:45 PM

If you ever shoot for editors using Final Cut Pro (a huge group), then supplying files/footage shot in the QTfile format wrapper is an important consideration.

If you are always shooting for yourself, then it may not be an issue for you.

We've never had an FS-C ourselves, only the FS4ProHD. And sad to say they have sat pretty much unused except for occasional standard def DV usage - and even then we chose not to bother much with it unfortunately.

Wade Hanchey · July 5th, 2007, 06:31 PM

John,

I appreciate your comments. Thank you.

March 20th, 2007, 09:56 PM	#47
Doug Tessler Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BOCa raton fl Posts: 342	I was a beta tester so you lose again ! I have the latests software that I got from focus today so you are wrong again ! Doug version 2.0.0.04092006: - Native QuickTime HDV DTE format. - HD TC display and restripe capabilities in Native QuickTime HDV DTE format - MXF OPatom DV DTE format. - Added ORGANIZE MXF for MXF OPatom support. - Added HDV TC TYPE menu functionality for HDV TC playback. - Improved DV FORMAT QUICKTIME 24P compatibility. - Improved disk handling. - Improved HD playback functionality. - Handle 999 clip limit properly.

March 20th, 2007, 10:03 PM	#48
Doug Tessler Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: BOCa raton fl Posts: 342	any this FS-C version 2.1 beta version 2.1.0 04112206 Thank you for participating in the FS-C version 2.1 beta test program. We appreciate your help! Attached is the first 2.1 beta release version. Please upgrade your unit as per the instructions in the manual. If you need to return to the current shipping version of software, simply load version 2.0 (also attached). Per the beta agreement, do not distribute this software. New Features When in HDV record mode and QUICKTIME is the selected format, it is now possible to record 1080i/24F, 25F and 30F streams to disk in QuickTime format. sincerely Doug T Send me a six pack you lose ! lol

March 21st, 2007, 01:26 PM	#50
Harry Bromley-Davenport Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: LA CA Posts: 317	Canon XLH1 24f user here with question. There seems to be a great deal of confusion about which firestore model does what. And, apparently, the manufacturers themselves are not too reliable about their own specs. Can some kind and knowledgeable soul inform me what my options are for use with my Canon XLH1? I also did hear at one stage that these units are kinda noisy - perhaps too noisy for use at close quarters for quiet dialog in filmed drama. Could anyone be so kind as to give me an opinion on this? Many thanks, Best Harry

March 29th, 2007, 07:26 PM	#52
Jay Rodriguez Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 80	i couldn't find it anywhere about a month ago __________________ . www.itchyhousefilms.com

April 30th, 2007, 10:22 AM	#54
Nathan Quattrini Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warwick, Rhode Island Posts: 740	http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=434414 My question is why can`t they do timelapse in HDV? Seems pretty bad to mix DV timelapsed footage with HDV footage if they are for the same project __________________ Cinematography Site

March 20th, 2007, 05:39 PM	#46
Tom Houston New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chantilly, VA Posts: 24	Doug, $20 says the code your 100GB model is running is different than what Focus and Canon are getting ready to release now. Tom

March 21st, 2007, 07:15 AM	#49
Tom Houston New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chantilly, VA Posts: 24	Doug, Let’s get real here. Beta is called Beta for a reason. I means the software is in a phase where bugs are still being worked out and it hasn’t yet reached production status. The code may be complete and ready to go but I'm hearing from reliable sources that there is an "agreement" of some sort that Canon and Focus are still working out and that is the reason the FS-C 60GB model is not shipping right now which is a good thing as I'm not interested in a "patched" FS-C with Beta code. Understand, your Beta code may very well be the final product but I'd rather have it straight from Focus/Canon. Tom

March 29th, 2007, 06:57 PM	#51
James Jackson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Leesburg Florida Posts: 65	Is the FS-C even available right now? Where is it in stock!?!?

April 30th, 2007, 10:26 AM	#55
Colin McFadden Sponsor: divergent media Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 201	Because the HDV video structure, with 15 frames grouped together and inherently interrelated, makes it very hard (computationally) to get a single frame. The Firestore is a "dumb" device - it doesn't do any actual decoding (and reencoding) of the video stream, which would be required to do a time lapse with HDV. They just write data to disk. So yeah, it's easy in DV where you can extract any frame individually, not so easy in HDV. __________________ Divergent Media Support www.divergentmedia.com

May 2nd, 2007, 09:38 AM	#57
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	From my experience with the XLH1 and FS4ProHD and Edius is that it works great in DV --- but in HDV it is problematic. The FSC firestore is the model now made specifically for the XLH1 (and presumably the A1 and G1). But I have no experience with the FS-C. I am trying to find someone who has experienced reliable HDV results in all frame rates and in both m2t and QT file formats. Bottom line, if you are going to make the leap with a Firestore for the Canon, stick with the FS-C.

July 5th, 2007, 12:45 PM	#59
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	If you ever shoot for editors using Final Cut Pro (a huge group), then supplying files/footage shot in the QTfile format wrapper is an important consideration. If you are always shooting for yourself, then it may not be an issue for you. We've never had an FS-C ourselves, only the FS4ProHD. And sad to say they have sat pretty much unused except for occasional standard def DV usage - and even then we chose not to bother much with it unfortunately.

July 5th, 2007, 06:31 PM	#60
Wade Hanchey Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 117	John, I appreciate your comments. Thank you.