Slow Motion... at DVinfo.net

Tim Polster · January 26th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Just wanted to ask some opinions about slow motion.

The 60p stuff I have seen looks great slowed down.

I am trying to decide between camera systems, and 60p seems like one area where they differ.

My overall choice is between the HPX & HVX or the EX-1 and a XDCAM HD 335.

The Panasonic's both do 60p, the Sony's are split, one with, one without 60p.

How important or how much better is the slow motion using 60p compared to 60i?

In Edius, my 60i content looks pretty good with the recent version.

So is 60p slo-mo a lot better than 60i in your opinion or just a little better?

Thanks

Ray Bell · January 26th, 2008, 06:09 PM

I hope I explain this correctly....

Its best to use footage that is progressive for slow motion...

you can get progressive footage two ways...

1) In camera
2) In post work... via your software editor or plugin

A camera that has a true progressive sensor is going to give the best results.

Your software will need to convert the footage to progressive if you want to work in slo mo.... there will be some issues to the quality during this process.
But most folks wouldn't see the issues...

At the price range of the equipment you list its still a little bit early in the evolution of camera's to deliver anything above 720 P60... not bad but
some of us are whishing for 1080 P60...
all it means is that if you plan on working with the best footage you can get(in camera) to work in slo-mo you'll need to work on a 720 timeline or you'll need to invest some time to research a interlace to progressive workflow(post software) that you'll be happy with the output on a 1080 timeline...

read this and I hope this helps with the explanation...

http://library.creativecow.net/artic...tor_review.php

Tim Polster · January 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM

Thanks Ray,

I have a technical understanding of the concepts, just mainly looking for some real-world use opinions.

I want the 60p option, but is that enough to sway me to the Panasonic line because the XDCAM HD 330 does not have it?

Or is everybody's opinion of software handling of interlaced slo-mo is that it is very good and diminishes the need for 720p60?

Ray Bell · January 26th, 2008, 09:48 PM

really depends, are you really looking to work in slo-mo or are you really looking to work in motion mapping....

It seems just about every body is now moving to motion mapping... very much a different approach than your standard slo-mo...

go here and see the examples of Twixtor

http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/gallery/

If this is what you are after?
then you can get this with in camera or post... in camera will give you the best results.

If you look at Phil Blooms slow mo work you'll notice that its in 720... alot of folks like 720 and some claim it looks as good as 1080... his looks pretty good to me

The difference in Phils 720 slo mo work and one done in post de-interlace would be like comparing a good beer to a not so good beer....

If you look, you will find folks around here pushing the HV20 footage to 60P in post and it looks very nice... and of course you can see EX1 footage to native 60P and it looks very very nice.

There is another technique that you might want to ponder...

shoot your main footage in 720P60 and some b footage in 1080i60, convert the 1080 material to progressive and mix that footage onto your 720P60 timeline.... now with the 1080 footage converted you get to either, size the 1080 or crop the 1080 material to the 720 timeline... just drop the footage on the timeline and drag the sizing handles to where you want the footage to align with the existing 720 footage...

If you compose the shot correctly you can create footage that looks as though it was shot from several camera's.... but it all came from one camera, one shoot....
complete with slo-mo or motion mapping... you can even add in pan and zoom effects

Tim Polster · January 26th, 2008, 10:55 PM

Any slo-mo I would do would be inside of Edius.

I have After Effects 6, but have found I don't use it very often.

Ray Bell · January 27th, 2008, 08:40 PM

sorry Tim, I can't help you with edius, don't know much about it....

I use Premiere Pro and just bought Vegas to work with....

Tim Polster · January 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM

Ray,

Thanks for your posts.

Anybody else want to add their opinion?

I am mainly asking how important 60p is to have over 60i when slo-motion is involved.

Is it worth making a camera purchase decision over?

Herman Van Deventer · January 28th, 2008, 11:06 AM

Tim /

Obviously P footage will deliver the best results for slo-mo

However Shooting 1080i on the XLH1 - imported into After Effects using the
deafult speed utility and output as Progressive gives way above average -
SLOMO RESULTS.

African Feedback.

January 26th, 2008, 05:34 PM	#1
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Slow Motion... Just wanted to ask some opinions about slow motion. The 60p stuff I have seen looks great slowed down. I am trying to decide between camera systems, and 60p seems like one area where they differ. My overall choice is between the HPX & HVX or the EX-1 and a XDCAM HD 335. The Panasonic's both do 60p, the Sony's are split, one with, one without 60p. How important or how much better is the slow motion using 60p compared to 60i? In Edius, my 60i content looks pretty good with the recent version. So is 60p slo-mo a lot better than 60i in your opinion or just a little better? Thanks Last edited by Tim Polster; January 26th, 2008 at 10:51 PM.

January 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM	#3
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Thanks Ray, I have a technical understanding of the concepts, just mainly looking for some real-world use opinions. I want the 60p option, but is that enough to sway me to the Panasonic line because the XDCAM HD 330 does not have it? Or is everybody's opinion of software handling of interlaced slo-mo is that it is very good and diminishes the need for 720p60? Last edited by Tim Polster; January 26th, 2008 at 10:52 PM.

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January 26th, 2008, 06:09 PM	#2
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	I hope I explain this correctly.... Its best to use footage that is progressive for slow motion... you can get progressive footage two ways... 1) In camera 2) In post work... via your software editor or plugin A camera that has a true progressive sensor is going to give the best results. Your software will need to convert the footage to progressive if you want to work in slo mo.... there will be some issues to the quality during this process. But most folks wouldn't see the issues... At the price range of the equipment you list its still a little bit early in the evolution of camera's to deliver anything above 720 P60... not bad but some of us are whishing for 1080 P60... all it means is that if you plan on working with the best footage you can get(in camera) to work in slo-mo you'll need to work on a 720 timeline or you'll need to invest some time to research a interlace to progressive workflow(post software) that you'll be happy with the output on a 1080 timeline... read this and I hope this helps with the explanation... http://library.creativecow.net/artic...tor_review.php

January 26th, 2008, 09:48 PM	#4
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	really depends, are you really looking to work in slo-mo or are you really looking to work in motion mapping.... It seems just about every body is now moving to motion mapping... very much a different approach than your standard slo-mo... go here and see the examples of Twixtor http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/gallery/ If this is what you are after? then you can get this with in camera or post... in camera will give you the best results. If you look at Phil Blooms slow mo work you'll notice that its in 720... alot of folks like 720 and some claim it looks as good as 1080... his looks pretty good to me The difference in Phils 720 slo mo work and one done in post de-interlace would be like comparing a good beer to a not so good beer.... If you look, you will find folks around here pushing the HV20 footage to 60P in post and it looks very nice... and of course you can see EX1 footage to native 60P and it looks very very nice. There is another technique that you might want to ponder... shoot your main footage in 720P60 and some b footage in 1080i60, convert the 1080 material to progressive and mix that footage onto your 720P60 timeline.... now with the 1080 footage converted you get to either, size the 1080 or crop the 1080 material to the 720 timeline... just drop the footage on the timeline and drag the sizing handles to where you want the footage to align with the existing 720 footage... If you compose the shot correctly you can create footage that looks as though it was shot from several camera's.... but it all came from one camera, one shoot.... complete with slo-mo or motion mapping... you can even add in pan and zoom effects

January 26th, 2008, 10:55 PM	#5
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Any slo-mo I would do would be inside of Edius. I have After Effects 6, but have found I don't use it very often.

January 27th, 2008, 08:40 PM	#6
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	sorry Tim, I can't help you with edius, don't know much about it.... I use Premiere Pro and just bought Vegas to work with....

January 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM	#7
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Ray, Thanks for your posts. Anybody else want to add their opinion? I am mainly asking how important 60p is to have over 60i when slo-motion is involved. Is it worth making a camera purchase decision over?

January 28th, 2008, 11:06 AM	#8
Herman Van Deventer Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: cape town South-Africa Posts: 251	Tim / Obviously P footage will deliver the best results for slo-mo However Shooting 1080i on the XLH1 - imported into After Effects using the deafult speed utility and output as Progressive gives way above average - SLOMO RESULTS. African Feedback.