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Old August 7th, 2008, 12:50 PM   #16
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As we move into tapeless acquisition, HDV will end, since the format is tape-based. But it's already evolving, as we shoot on XDCAM HD/EX and other formats.

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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #17
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HDV will end, since the format is tape-based.
Hold on, what is all this about HDV being tape based?

A colleague shoots HDV exclusively on his EX1 - no tape there.

A lot of us edit HDV and store it on disk, DVD-ROM and BluRay - no tape there.

HDV is just the adolescent version of XDCAM-HD.

It's a relatively low-overhead 'let's play a game we all know' format unlike the variants of -

- okay, so HDV1 is probably tape based. Ahh, no. Bzzt. Wrong answer - use a firestore!

No tape there.

Why is HDV perceived as tape based?
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #18
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You're right about HDV on the EX, but HDV was designed in 2003 to be tape-based, which means the name HDV will make way for the tapeless formats. Semantics, I know, but DV didn't evolve like HDV did.

I also love how HDV sold so many more cameras than most other sub-$10,000 camera formats. I think the two main factors for this were HD acquisition that didn't cost $100,000, and film-style qualities (24p, 1/48 shutter, cine settings, etc.).

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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #19
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ps- http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm

I've been working with HDV since 2003 with the (not-so-great) HD10. I loved that I could still use minidv tapes, which cost so much less than ever. When I made my flick Skye Falling (XL1) in 1999, Sony minidv tapes (60 minute rolls) cost $10 each!

Check out www.904am.com and www.youtube.com/mpsdigital to see some downconverted stuff from a film I directed two years ago, 9:04 AM, that was shot on the Z1u in 50i with CineFrame 25 (then converted to 24p in Final Cut Pro's Cinema Tools) and a prototype V1u (24p).

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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #20
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I seem to remember reading someplace that the Z1U sold more cameras in less time than the PD150 when it hit the market so big.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:16 PM   #21
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Yeah, I didn't look around for numbers, but HDV cameras like the HD110, Z1u, FX1, XLH1 all sold more in the peak of HDV (late 2004-late 2006) than most pro DV cameras did in the late 1990s to 2004.

And let's not forget the HVX200! That was a BIG seller!

Of course, in my humblest of opinions, the DVX100/a/b changed the sub-$50,000 DV/HD camera market forever with digital film options.

I think the best DV camera was the DVX100a, and the best HDV camera was a tie between the functionality, picture and ergonomics of the Z1u, and the picture, functionality and price of the V1u (ergonomics were weird on that camera, because it was so small, there were less buttons and more menu functions vs. the Z1u).

Right now, I'm in love with my EX1 and can't wait to try out the EX3 tomorrow!!

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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #22
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Okay, so in 2003, the idea of solid state recording would have been nuts. Hands up who remember the 128 MB RAM disk for Macs in 1991 - $24,000! 2003, a top end CF card would be 128 MB? 512 MB? I'm sure tape was the only viable option then, but those amazing engineery types would ensure that it's all just data. 1s and 0s.

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Of course, in my humblest of opinions, the DVX100/a/b changed the sub-$50,000 DV/HD camera market forever with digital film options.
Totally agree, but with one exception: why, for the love of anything remotely resembling a deity of choice, did they not embrace 16:9 from the get-go? I so wanted a DVX100 - such a sensible little thing with an image to die for, but spending a grand on a bit of glass at the front is no substitute for getting it right (XL2). If the DVX100a supported 16:9 maybe I'd be Barry Green's apprentice by now.


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Right now, I'm in love with my EX1 and can't wait to try out the EX3 tomorrow!!
Be careful - I hear the ergonomics, viewfinder and 'magic knob' are addictive. Just picture the scene at an airport. Unless you can go for the wangle too, the pictures will be the same... But I want one too...
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #23
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I love my EX1 as well, but the HDV based XH-A1 is just as detailed at 1080i60, you only start seeing a difference when you are in low light, or go to 24p, ...a tiny improvement in shallow depth of field, , and a bunch of extra features, i.e. over/undercranking, time lapse, manual lens etc.,...and rolling shutter issues.

In other words, there is nothing inherently obsolete about HDV except the tape. It's still digital, still hi-def. What we're going to see is its disappearance from all the consumer cams (if it hasn't already), and take on an extended career in the hands of semi-pro cams like the Canon XH-A1/G1, XL-H1, Sony Z1/FX1/V1/FX7 and tapeless HDV in the EX1/EX3 and Z7.
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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:42 PM   #24
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Exactly! Heck, in 1999, people were astonished to hear I had 120 GB of internal hard drives for my Final Cut Pro/G3 Power Mac rig! And it cost only $3,000, and it was spread out on 4 drives.

Same year, I was working at an NBC affiliate, and we were talking about hard drive cameras, and how if you drop the drive, you're done. I love solid-state cards! I can't wait for prices to come down so we can have solid-state internal and external drives, widespread.

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Old August 7th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #25
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To be honest, more and more, the HDV cameras were so alike, it was just a matter of which one you were most comfortable with. Competition made us, the shooters, the winners. I feel like the next-gen of these types of cameras, like the HVX200a, the EX1/3, and others, are just incredible.

I dare say we're in the golden age of sub-$10,000 digital cinema/HD cameras.

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