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General HD (720 / 1080) Acquisition
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 08:30 AM   #16
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Thanks, but this doesn't address my confusion:
"The Z1 looks much like the PD 170 in DV mode, it's a very good good DV camera, not amazingly remarkable. You can shoot in HDV, downconvert in the camera to SD, and save your EDL for a later re-edit in HDV if you'd like. That's the most cost-effective use of HDV cams at the moment."

I _like_ the sound of that! You suggested shoot HDV, edit DV, then save an EDL for an HDV re-edit. Frankly, the whole business of output to HDCam & timecode on _that_ output is a new topic -- this thread and your earlier post were on a different topic ...

Which is what I still am confused about: Your proposed production path from the earlier post suggests that _source_ timecode is preserved on transfer (how else to get an EDL?), that the same timecode is used for both HDV & DV download (how else to get an SD EDL to work with an HDV reedit?) seems ideal to me. Did I misunderstand that post? Let's please _not_ talk about HDCam output, which seems a minor final step, nor about timecode presence on the final output ... it is the earlier stages & the EDL that interest me.

Thanks,
GB
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 09:30 AM   #17
 
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OK, let's try to take this in order.

Geoff, you brought up timecode, which is not part of this thread, so I had to respond with where the timecode comes from and how it relates.

No, the final render of a project does not retain original timecode in the final output, because it can't. An EDL is part of the project, not a final render. It's merely a listing of the timecodes used from various tape sources, compiled into one project. When you render that project out, or print it to tape, a new timecode is generated for the entire project, which is as it should be. Timecode in the original media CANNOT be preserved in the final output to a master. The project retains the original timecode, the timecode is still preserved on the original source tapes, the MASTER has a new timecode generated in the compilation of the various source media and output of same.
But whenever you shoot anything with the Z1, the timecode is embedded in the tape, it stays in the tape, and is never stripped from the tape unless you erase the tape and re-record over it. If your NLE supports EDLs, and most do, you can always go back and recapture the HDV as HDV, or capture it the first time as HDV and edit/downconvert to SD. Or, you can downconvert to SD in the camera. In all cases, the timecode remains on the tape.

Does *this* make sense? If not, I ask you either read the existing thread on timecode, or start a new one since this thread is about using HDV in broadcast.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 09:51 AM   #18
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I'm sorry we are on separate pages here ...

I have been producing for broadcast for nearly twenty years. Every project I have ever produced was deeply and intimately entwined with timecode -- when EDLs were entirely paper, before computer were allowed into edit suites -- we recorded the timecode from the source tape to identify the sequence in the EDL. Any EDL we produce today is essentially the same -- the EDL references the source tape, the source tape _timecode_ ... so in my reading, it was you who first referenced timecode in this thread when you indicated the DV EDL could be used to produce an HDV EDL ...

I don't understand why you keep talking about 'final output timecode' ... as I've tried to state, I couldn't care less about that. The specific question I have relates to EDLs, which relate to source tape timecode ...

When you capture HDV is the source tape timecode preserved so that the EDL refers to the source tape & more importantly when HDV is downloaded as DV is the source tape timecode preserved so that a DV-EDL can be later used to generate an HDV version of the project?

That's all I want to know. I don't need to hear anything about HDCam, SDI or output timecode .... valuable stuff all, but not remotely connected to the thread I thought I was reading about a production path that allowed parallel production of a DV and an HDV version with EDL reference to source tape timecode.

Thanks, and apologies if this is not the thread everyone else was following.

GB
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 10:10 AM   #19
 
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<<<-- Originally posted by R Geoff Baker : I'm sorry we are on separate pages here ...


When you capture HDV is the source tape timecode preserved so that the EDL refers to the source tape & more importantly when HDV is downloaded as DV is the source tape timecode preserved so that a DV-EDL can be later used to generate an HDV version of the project?


GB -->>>

Geoff, your question is confusing because:
a-it's relevant to the NLE/Capture system. Most capture systems are capable of retaining the source T/C. The CAMERA sends the T/C whether it's DV or HDV. How your NLE/Capture application ut

b-The thread is on the subject of WHO is using HDV in broadcast, not HOW HDV is being used in broadcast.

Are we all clear now? Again, if not, please start a new thread.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 10:22 AM   #20
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I have started a new thread specific to my question. Thanks.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39934

"The Z1 looks much like the PD 170 in DV mode, it's a very good good DV camera, not amazingly remarkable. You can shoot in HDV, downconvert in the camera to SD, and save your EDL for a later re-edit in HDV if you'd like. That's the most cost-effective use of HDV cams at the moment." This is the message I'm following up on, for those chasing a similar question.

Cheers,
GB
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