HDV in broadcast

[Michael Dalton]

I'm interest to know if anyone here is using the new Sony HDV camera in broadcast production that is actually airing on a network. I'd love to hear about you pipeline, and what is your delivery is?

Do you down convert to SD? If you stay native HDV, do you broadcast in 24p or 60i.

As I'm moving into production on a new series, I'm weighing the options I have at this moment (up to 6 months from now). The fact that Avid is not supporting the FX1 as native till around September or so has me concerned. I looking to HDV as a cost effective way to ensure I have a market 10 years from now.

(Please if you can limit responses to those who are working HDV broadcast or are extremely versed on the subject)

thanks,

Michael

[Michael Dalton]

anyone using HDV in broadcast?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Search the threads, you'll see that JAG has used it, Nightline is now using it, WFAA in Dallas is shooting with it, but I don't know if they've delivered for air yet.

[Michael Dalton]

what I'm most interested in is getting it mastered in 24p, as networks like Discovery theater are/looking to broadcast in 24p. and things will certainly move that way in the future, I want to ensure that I call sell my series.

News whould surely be broadcasting 30i at this stage with no desire for lingevity.

Thanks for the comments though, it is nice to know what is HDV.

Michael

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

There isn't a 30i, there is a 30p or 60i, but since you didn't ask about 24 fps in your original post, there wasn't a way to know that you were seeking information on 24.
You can't broadcast in native HDV. Isn't possible. Most broadcasts are going to go out 60i or 30p. Nothing is aired at 24p. It might be acquired at 24p, but when it's broadcast, it becomes 30p or 60i. There is no 24P in the broadcast standard. Pulldown is inserted.

[Barry Green]

For SD broadcast that is true.

However, for HD broadcast, the ATSC provides for 24p and 30p native broadcasting at either 1080 or 720 resolutions.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

True enough. I guess I wasn't considering all the options. Jumping around from board to board sometimes leaves you with one subject in your brain while replying to another. :-)

[Robin Davies-Rollinson]

We're using it in BBC Wales.
My mate has just shot a short drama on the Z1.
It was shot in HDV and down-rezzed to SD for editing.
He told me today that it performed very well, but the hardest part was focussing. They had hired in a HD monitor for the director, so at least there was a check. This particular director is used to shooting things tight and with lots of movement of actors, so my mate had his work cut out - especially as he's used to Digibeta with all the trimmings...
Everyone is very pleased and I'm looking forward to seeing it in the edit suite.
I've got some projects for broadcast as well and my producer colleague is keen to start using my FX1.
Of course, everything will be broadcast in SD, but shot in HDV.
All our stuff is 16:9, so this camera has really filled a niche for us.

Robin

[Bob Zimmerman]

so with the Z1 you can shoot in HDV then download (or whatever you call it) to you computer as SD? My problem right now would be upgrading the computer and the programs. But if I got the camera now I would be able to edit either with my final cut express or maybe at least upgrade that so I could edit 16:9.

I'm not sure how the iMovieHD works. But my iMac would probably not be fast enough anyway.

But if I got the Z1 and could shoot in SD, DVcam etc I could still get by for now.

I still haven't heard much on how the Z1 looks shooting in SD, DVCam.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

The Z1 looks much like the PD 170 in DV mode, it's a very good good DV camera, not amazingly remarkable. You can shoot in HDV, downconvert in the camera to SD, and save your EDL for a later re-edit in HDV if you'd like. That's the most cost-effective use of HDV cams at the moment.

[R Geoff Baker]

I very much like the sound of that production flow: shoot HDV, download as DV, edit as DV, tell the edit system that the DV files are offline, reimport as HDV ... output as HDV.

But I'm confused -- the flow described demands that timecode be preserved on transfer, and demands that the _same_ timecode be transferred whether the format is DV or HDV ..? I admit that sounds possible to me, even likely ... but my reading here suggests that timecode preservation doesn't happen ..?

Please explain.

GB

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Now *I'm* confused. Where in the thread are you reading about timecode?
FWIW, timecode is created when you finish the final product, and timecode will be on whatever your finished product is if you're delivering for broadcast. I'm not sure if you *could* deliver an HDCam without T/C on it.

[R Geoff Baker]

We are talking about HDCAM? Colour me confused -- I was reading this as an HDV thread.

As for the reference to timecode, it was in your previous post: "You can shoot in HDV, downconvert in the camera to SD, and save your EDL for a later re-edit in HDV if you'd like."

I'm lost ...

[Bob Zimmerman]

Let's try and keep it simple!!

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

OK, for BROADCAST here goes:
1. Shoot HDV
2. Edit HDV
3. Output to either HDV, or using an HD/SDI card, output to HDCam.
4. If you output to HDV, you must then transfer the HDV to HDCam.

No broadcaster will accept an HDV file/tape at this time. That may well change one day, but for the moment, no one will accept it. Most broadcasters need to get it into their system via SDI, and there currently are no HDV decks or cameras with SDI built in.

Timecode will be present on either the HDV master or the HDCam master. The timecode will originate in the NLE used to edit/create the project.

Hopefully this clarifies things for everyone?