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Old April 27th, 2005, 11:47 PM   #1
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CU-VH1US-P HDV Recorder Player

Does anybody know if the CU-VH1US-P would support in any fashion the new ProHD camera recorded tape? Any format? This baby is currently capable of 720 30P, so would it be usable through a firmware update for the 720 24P?
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Old April 27th, 2005, 11:52 PM   #2
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Excellent question, Luis! My gut reaction is to say no, it is not compatible, but I've been known to be wrong. I'll ask Ken Freed to weigh in on this tomorrow during East Coast business hours. Thanks,
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Old April 28th, 2005, 12:05 AM   #3
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Thanks, Chris. I think that we, as loyal and patient supporters of JVC in this rollercoster called HDV/ProHD world, purchasing the HD10 and the CU-VH1 deserve to have some serious consideration from their part in the area of firmware. I am pretty sure it is possible, but it is only needed a good will from JVC to put some effort into making it a reality. Same thing with the lack of independent control of parameters (speed and apperture). Maybe you can, with your clout, be a louder voice for us. I am planing to buy the HD100 (if my wife allows me, to be perfectly honest), but I would like to keep my previous equipment and still be updated in terms of technology as well as not having issues of compatibility. Again, thanks!
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Old April 28th, 2005, 12:09 AM   #4
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I'm in nearly the same boat as you, as far as equipment purchase authorizations go! Hopefully we'll hear some news one way or the other from Ken,
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Old April 28th, 2005, 09:57 AM   #5
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It seems that JVC would have put the CU-VH1US-P deck on the HD100 System Chart if it was compatible with the HD100, even in 720p30. Link: http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/...hd100/sys.html

Maybe they just forgot to place it on the diagram - or maybe it won't work with the HD100. If the deck did work at 720p30, the HD100 motion smoothing filter is effective, and someone markets a 720p30 capable lipstick or cigar camera (with no control unit), the system could be adapted for some of the POV shots I use in my television productions.
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Old April 28th, 2005, 12:55 PM   #6
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The CU-VH1U can play back the 30p tape from the GY-HD100.

The deck would have no idea what 24p was.

i understand customers always appreciate continued compatability but there are limits. When the clam was developed, 24p was not yet on the horizon.
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Old April 28th, 2005, 01:28 PM   #7
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We know a firmware wil do the magic...In my opinion it is just a matter of JVC support to the loyal customrs, and I think I can speak for all of us that have invested in JVC products and, due to that loyalty, we expect just a tiny effort from you and change the firmware so that it will recognize the 24p. The components and electronics are there, the rest is programming logic to update it. Now, the ball is in your court...

Respectfully,

Luis Otero
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Old April 28th, 2005, 01:56 PM   #8
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Hi Luis,

A firmware update for a VTR is not that simple. For one thing, even if it were possible, it would have to be an alteration made at a JVC service center. What would you pay for having that done, on top of shipping charges and insurance both ways for the trip? Would it not be easier to simply sell that deck and upgrade your gear, as most folks do every few years anyway? I'm sure a firmware update is possible, just not very practical.
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Old April 28th, 2005, 01:58 PM   #9
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Ken-

Can the CU-VH1U record 720p30 from the HD100 or other 720p30 capable camera to tape via firewire or component?
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Old April 28th, 2005, 08:42 PM   #10
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Chris,

I agree that upgrading the equipment is the way to go now, but I bought the deck around a year ago and it makes no sense to sell it right away. In addition, the cost of this baby is around $1,500 street price, versus the price of the new deck... I think that the reluctancy from JVC of an upgrade in the firmware obeys more to protect their future sales of the new equipment rather than any other practical considerations. I just think that we are the ones making this new exciting revolution a reality by purchasing their equipment in a risky fashion, trusting JVC to stand behind us (the ones that help them make money, hence able to invest in R&D) in this kind of situations. I think this should be a two way road: we purchase their equipment, they help us updating firmwares. Just that simple. But, this is only in an ideal world; meanwhile, money talks... Anyway, thanks for trying to help us during your conversations with JVC.

Regards,
Luis
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Old April 29th, 2005, 04:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
Hi Luis,

A firmware update for a VTR is not that simple. For one thing, even if it were possible, it would have to be an alteration made at a JVC service center. What would you pay for having that done, on top of shipping charges and insurance both ways for the trip? Would it not be easier to simply sell that deck and upgrade your gear, as most folks do every few years anyway? I'm sure a firmware update is possible, just not very practical.
When Sony released DVCAM, none of it's earlier DV camcorders -- like the VX1000 -- could play it.

Moreover, it's a lot more than firmware -- the entire HD100 is based upon 720p60 output for analog and i.LINK.

But here's the interesting point -- JVC Japan is conducting a major effort to convince all the press that ProHD -- even though obviously not compatible with previous HDV products -- is NOT a new FORMAT. Nope. It is only an "approach."

Moreover, they argue that 24p has always been part of the HDV spec. Even were that true -- what about the PCM audio? PCM that Ken Freed claims is not present on the HD100 while a Japanese engineer publically claimed it is and how you can use it.

Looks like neither Sony nor JVC Japan can release a product without causing major PR problems.
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Old April 29th, 2005, 06:30 PM   #12
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Amen to the issue related to new products and poor PR. Specially when they have contradicting information WITHIN the same company about their products capabilities... Good to know.

We will buy the HD100. Maybe in a year or so the deck, and then, at that glorious point, *angels playing harps* we will have a new second "approach" that will make our GREAT HD100/deck combo just another not-fully supported vision of the past and step behind in their marketing scheme that just looks forward without taking care of their support base (just as they are doing with the HD10/CU-VH1US combo). That is my chief concern with all this rollercoster.

Luis
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Old April 29th, 2005, 07:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
Moreover, it's a lot more than firmware -- the entire HD100 is based upon 720p60 output for analog and i.LINK.
There is no 60p output through i.Link/Firewire. Only through the analog ports.

Quote:
Moreover, they argue that 24p has always been part of the HDV spec.
Now, that's comical -- they argue that 24p *is* part of it, and that 60p is not. Just look at the first press release -- 24p is not included (although 25p is) and 60p and 50p are specifically mentioned as being part of it. At the booth the JVC rep I talked to insisted quite adamantly that 60p is not part of the HDV spec, which is why their camera doesn't support 60p. But it clearly is part of the spec. The truth of the matter appears to be that the NTT MPEG encoder chips they're using don't support 60p, so therefore their camera doesn't -- but that doesn't mean it's not part of the HDV standard.
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Old April 30th, 2005, 04:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Barry Green
There is no 60p output through i.Link/Firewire. Only through the analog ports.
.
According Lumiere who is writing the 24p software, the output via 1394 is always 720p60. I too find this hard to believe -- although it does make sense. Change the encoder and overnight one gets 72060


Plus, all NLE work at 720p60.
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Old April 30th, 2005, 09:16 AM   #15
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Plus many genres of TV production need 720p60
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