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Old February 3rd, 2015, 11:12 AM   #16
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Been there done this many times. Nothing casual about it. These are must work situations. No wireless AT ALL, never, I wont do it. We work with the IT folks at the venue to establish a dedicated line just for us. It is not unusual for the client to pay $800.00 to $1,200.00 a day for that line. Then we get the mac address, port info, etc. and disable dynamic IP addressing. Everything is dedicated and locked in. That is just on the IT side of it.

On the AV side of it there are multiple cameras, PowerPoint and other sources being switched before encoding. As most have said here already, lots of moving parts. Your funerals may have a smaller budget and audience but that does not matter, its the same technology.

I interpreted something you said to suggest you might try this and inform them "it will probably work but maybe not"? This is business advice you did not ask for, I am not trying to be harsh but I would never go there. When people pay for something they expect it to work, even if they did not pay enough to make it work. I would never put myself in a situation were 20 people remotely viewing a funeral could suddenly loose a connection! It is a funeral, that would be cruel. I am sure you will have some very upset people on your hands even if you tried to warn them first.

Someone mentioned Black Magic. Research their units capabilities closely. Most of the units they sell to make this sound easy do not have internal scalars.

Kind Regards,

Steve
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 11:40 AM   #17
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Thanks everyone for all the great replies and advice. I have decided to skip this new adventure and stick with what I know. I seem to go through this every winter when I am bored. See you all next January :)

P.S. The final straw was in fact the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle. Could only get to work in DV mode with HDMI connection.
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 12:30 PM   #18
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Yeah, when I get my dedicated line I ALWAYS specify that I need a static IP address for the same reasons
you guys all talked about.
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 12:55 PM   #19
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Big problem with wifi is that although pre-event you may have sufficient up bandwidth but fill the venue with connected devices when the villagers arrive and the shared bandwidth will dwindle to near zip
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 04:11 PM   #20
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Digges View Post
Been there done this many times. Nothing casual about it. These are must work situations. No wireless AT ALL, never, I wont do it. We work with the IT folks at the venue to establish a dedicated line just for us. It is not unusual for the client to pay $800.00 to $1,200.00 a day for that line. Then we get the mac address, port info, etc. and disable dynamic IP addressing. Everything is dedicated and locked in. That is just on the IT side of it.

On the AV side of it there are multiple cameras, PowerPoint and other sources being switched before encoding. As most have said here already, lots of moving parts. Your funerals may have a smaller budget and audience but that does not matter, its the same technology.
Yeah, a dedicated line with static IP address was the same way I did
my live casts for the state. But on the AV side, this is one reason I really
liked wirecast. Multiple cameras, powerpoints, movies recorded beforehand
and other sources all able to be switched by wirecast......which also
encodes, and allows you to insert lower thirds and tons more. It's kind of
like a Sony Anycast system only you can run it on any modern laptop.
Great program for live streaming.
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 05:23 PM   #21
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Hi Gabe,

Wirecast claims all that, but you still have to get all of those sources into the laptop. And it wants your PowerPoint or other computer sources to come in through LAN. No thank you. Corporate AV varies from shows that are perfectly controlled (rare for me the TD) to shows that are pure chaos and stress. No matter what you tell the presenters in advance some yahoo is always going to walk in ten minutes before he goes on stage and throw some device at you and say, my presentations on there! Today that device could be anything from a phone to a tablet to a laptop, and in any flavor.

I had one of the first 100 Sony Anycasts ever released. Other than a totally useless built in encoder it served me well for many years as a switcher, among other things. I finally sold it six months ago. The new Anycast is one hundred percent touch screen, no thank you.

Call me old fashioned but in a live switching environment I want buttons I can mash and a take bar. Not to mention the ability to set up good previewing.

We all agreed in this thread that webcasting has a lot of moving parts. Those parts can vary greatly. Most guys I know that use Wirecast still have a hardware switcher feeding it if they are running multiple sources. I have not found a perfect "all in one solution" yet. I don't think it is out there.

Steve
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 08:36 PM   #22
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Well maybe I've been lucky then. I've done a bunch of livecasts using Sony's older Anycast system,
including a special session of the state legislature. I know the Anycast system quite well.
And Wirecast has worked just fine for me with multiple cameras, using the add on Desktop
Presenter to display Powerpoint presentations from another computer. I've done pretty much every
kind of 'stressful' livecast you can think of, live sports, weddings, funerals, Governor's addresses to the
state, and plenty more. Wirecast only, no external switcher. Works fine for me. About 90% of
an Anycast for about 1/20th the price.
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Old February 3rd, 2015, 09:42 PM   #23
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Gabe,

I think your misreading something I said? I am not knocking Wirecast or anyone elses choice. I said Wirecast requires a hardware component in front of it to feed it multiple video sources. A switcher such as the old Anycast gave me the ability to switch between four video sources and two computer RGB inputs and output that signal into the common firewire input found on most laptops at the time.

What method did you choose to input multiple camera feeds into Wirecast? Just asking, my input so far was never meant to be adversarial, it never is.

Steve
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Old February 6th, 2015, 03:36 AM   #24
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Steven,

Sorry, I just wanted to point out, Wirecast DOES in fact
have a built in switcher an external one is not needed.
As for how you input multiple cameras into Wirecast,
it depends on your computer and cameras of course.
In standard def, I have connected 3 DV cameras to a laptop
successfully via FireWire. With a tower you can use the
card slots to put in Matrox or other capture cards for HD cams.
The Matrox VS4 for example, gives you 4 HD-SDI inputs
which will all work with Wirecast. Wirecast will also work with
HDV over FireWire. Like many things the exact setup varies
depending on what sort of cameras you wish to
stream from and what outputs they have as well as what sort of
computer you have, But rest assured, no external switcher
is needed, Wirecast has that functionality built in, program
and preview monitors, a 'window' for each camera angle,
transitions or straight cut between camera angles, the whole
deal. Not sure if I am allowed to name vendors because of
board sponsor policy, but several well known video gear
vendors sell ready to go multi-camera Wirecast set ups.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 12:14 PM   #25
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Great topic. Like Darryn, I'm the "One Man Band", filming various one camera events like plays, memorials, concerts, meetings,etc. Lately, I have been asked to do the live broadcast option, and have not been able to do, thus turning down some additional cash. A good amount of requests, seems to be something a lot of people want more and more.

So I am in the process of researching. I understand all the pitfalls noted in this post. Could turn into a nightmare, but I'm willing to try, and cover myself legally if problems arise.

Here's where I'm at, keeping the potential connection issues, wifi problems, dweeb IT kid screwing up, etc. all separate.

1. Looking to purchase the JVC GY-HM200 or Sony PXW-X70. The 200 is yet to be released, but looks to have built-in streaming capabilities. The x70 also says future streaming to come, not sure what that means. In either, I assume I can wirelessly connect each cam directly to the internet and send the video to a CDN? I wonder if both cams will have an ethernet port to be wired?

2. If another cam without built in streaming, would get a teradek cube. Has wireless and ethernet wired. Looks like you can go right from the cube to your CDN. Anyone use this cube?

3. Finally, the CDN. Obviously, wanna spend least amount of cash. Can't have ads. Ustream, Livestream, etc. all have plans $99+ per month, wanna avoid. Anyone use Youtube Live? Looks to be free, unlimited views, is that true? I can't tell if that has ads or not, like the full screen interruption ads, or the banner type ads.
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Old February 8th, 2015, 05:22 PM   #26
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

1. I've avoided committing to closed solutions. I'd define a camcorder that includes a stream output of some sort as a closed solution. Why? Fear that it would not be configurable to do the spec needed by this or that CDN. I'm guessing that neither of these would have an ethernet connection, but would be wifi out only.

2. I've used a client's cube. Not as easy to configure as a software encoder running on a computer, but it does create a single stream, and I (eventually) successfully connected up to Akamai. Don't think I ever connected up via wifi, but I'm sure my client did. The results were good.

The cube is quite a versatile little box, but you do need to know your networking to get the max out of it.

Do bear in mind that these sorts of solutions create a single stream; if you want streams of multiple specs they'll have to be created by a bridging service or by the CDN.

3. Never tried Youtube Live. None of my clients would accept third-party branding, period. For my work, most is done on premium white-label services like Akamai, but I've experimented with Amazon AWS solutions, which are inexpensive in that you only have to run them when you're live (or learning). Live streaming on AWS is *very* challenging, knowing simple networking ain't the half of it!

I guess one question I'd ask of all the one-man bands: How will you monitor the return stream if you're also shooting & encoding? If you don't monitor the webcast distribution stream(s), and someone says "my cousin couldn't see it, your sh** is broken!" what do you say?
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Old February 9th, 2015, 09:47 AM   #27
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Thanks Seth. Yeah, maybe staying away from the combo streaming cameras is a good idea. Gotta have Ethernet, and with the cube, I can use on other cameras, rather than being "locked in".

I am a "One-Man Band", but when I start doing these live streams, gonna have a younger kid come along, throw him $100 for the shoot, and have him police the stream on a laptop and on his phone to make sure everything is online. Of course, will be testing ahead of time, knowing things could change bigtime during the live event.

I have a friend who is an attorney, and he will be helping me develop the contract for these shoots. Just at starting point, but will have stipulations in the signed contract if stream fails. Also, if stream is fine, but Jimbo trying to view in Montana and has issues, the contract will somehow handle that type of situation. The contract will cover as many potential pitfalls I can think of.
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Old February 9th, 2015, 10:38 AM   #28
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Rick,

In more than 20 years of doing business never once have I uttered the words "my contract says" and I plan to keep it that way. But that's a different story.

Good advice from Seth. Spot on!

Check out these guys: Broadcast online, Web/Internet broadcasting, PayPerView, Flash | Win Media Hosting | AudioVideoweb.com

I used to use them a lot, a long time ago. Easy to deal with, tech support you can talk to, low priced, no locked in contract, no ads. Here is the catch, and this is totally my speculation, I don't know the story for sure. They have been around for many years. I think that is the problem. Their website has not changed, they have not seemed to have changed anything. So I suspect their streaming servers never changed. They still recommend 320x240 at 300kpbs for the best result. That works for a solid stream but it does not work at all in the real world anymore. Your clients will expect far more than that from you. I have not used them in a few years but they are still there. You might take a look. I just looked and saw that they at least list higher resolutions now. I do not know how well they stream them?

In fact, if anyone else has input on these guys I would love to hear it. They were great to deal with and very reasonable. I lost confidence them but they never failed me.

Steve
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Old April 28th, 2015, 12:38 AM   #29
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Re: Workflow for Live Streaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Miller View Post
Great topic. Like Darryn, I'm the "One Man Band", filming various one camera events like plays, memorials, concerts, meetings,etc. Lately, I have been asked to do the live broadcast option, and have not been able to do, thus turning down some additional cash. A good amount of requests, seems to be something a lot of people want more and more.

So I am in the process of researching. I understand all the pitfalls noted in this post. Could turn into a nightmare, but I'm willing to try, and cover myself legally if problems arise.

Here's where I'm at, keeping the potential connection issues, wifi problems, dweeb IT kid screwing up, etc. all separate.

1. Looking to purchase the JVC GY-HM200 or Sony PXW-X70. The 200 is yet to be released, but looks to have built-in streaming capabilities. The x70 also says future streaming to come, not sure what that means. In either, I assume I can wirelessly connect each cam directly to the internet and send the video to a CDN? I wonder if both cams will have an ethernet port to be wired?

2. If another cam without built in streaming, would get a teradek cube. Has wireless and ethernet wired. Looks like you can go right from the cube to your CDN. Anyone use this cube?

3. Finally, the CDN. Obviously, wanna spend least amount of cash. Can't have ads. Ustream, Livestream, etc. all have plans $99+ per month, wanna avoid. Anyone use Youtube Live? Looks to be free, unlimited views, is that true? I can't tell if that has ads or not, like the full screen interruption ads, or the banner type ads.
Rick, I just bought an X180, and use the live streaming function to feed into a Teradek receiver at my station, which pops it out on air with like a half second delay. I have had success with 720p 3Mbps streams, but ONLY with a modem hard attached and poking up into the air on a 6 inch mast of sorts. Attempts to use WiFi are sketchy even for SD 1Mbps. The Sony asks for a web address (IP) and a port. The JVC HM650's we use ask for a lot more information, and have a separate Zixi server function as well.

I would assume the X70 and the HM200 wuld be similar if not identical.

Paul
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