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Old December 16th, 2015, 08:59 PM   #1
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Best render format if rendering twice?

Ok, i know its a crazy workflow so please bear with me. I am not fluent with Sony Vegas but I use it to edit multi-camera projects. I shot 4 Nutcrackers with 2 cams. I would like to use Vegas to edit the video files, switching back and forth, and end up with my basic video that utilized the 2 cameras.Render this file to use in a different NLE, VideoStudioPro X8 which I am fluent in. This will be to add some text overlays, images added, few snips and transitions, credits, etc. From here I can then render for DVD, Web, Blu ray, etc.

So for my first step, is there an ideal format to render too since it would be rendered again?

Thanks all.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 12:45 AM   #2
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

It will need to be a lossless, or at least visually lossless, codec. Visually lossless for example, are DNxHD and Cineform. Lossless includes HuffYUV, Lagarith and lossless H264. There are others.

In the end, it depends on what Vegas will put out that Videostudio will accept.

Dave
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Old December 17th, 2015, 03:52 AM   #3
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

Thanks Dave, I dont see any of those options, in fact it keeps "selecting for me" the format below:
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Old December 17th, 2015, 04:25 AM   #4
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

I don"t use vegas but I see that "match project settings" is ticked, what happens if you untick that option, are you not getting more output formats then?
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Old December 17th, 2015, 04:27 AM   #5
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

I understand it's a learning curve, so for best import into Ulead, Windows Media Video at the absolute highest bitrate you can (I'd go for "50 M") should import well. WMA at an equally high bitrate (320kbps)

By default Vegas edits in 1080i. If your footage is from GoPros, DSLRs or anything progressive, change your project properties (the button with the blue icon with the mouse cursor inside it in the upper left corner) to Field order: "None (progressive scan)"

Start with the "8 Mbps 1080p30" template for the "Windows Media Video V11" format, Customize the template by pressing the "Custom" button next to the template dropdown in the "Render As" screen.

Turn the audio from 192kbps to 320kbps in the drop down menu.

Go to the Video tab and choose "Keep Original Size" for "Image Size" and change the 1.333 to 1.000. (This is VERY important.)

Go to the Bitrate tab and type "50 M" in the spot where "8 M" is.

Save the template as any name you want by highlighting the 8 Mbps name at the top of the dialog and typing your own name, then pressing the save button on the right.

Select the name you chose in the dropdown and you should be on your way.

JUST in case it throws an unknown error, lower your bitrate in the bitrate tab. Try "30 M" first, then "25 M," and if none of those work, revert to "8 M."
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Old December 17th, 2015, 05:14 AM   #6
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

I agree with Noa that Vegas is doing what you have selected, that is matching the input which is 60i. I haven't used Vegas in years, but once you uncheck that box I would expect it to allow you to choose more output formats. Then you can do what Jack says or look for other formats, but you'll still have to follow his "custom" instructions.

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Old December 17th, 2015, 05:42 AM   #7
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

Thanks all. I unticked and had more options but still none from original reply. I have setup the custom render with Jacks specs and am rendering now. A bit slow but if I get the quality I need I can deal with it. Video is 90 minutes and render estimate about 3 hours.
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Old December 17th, 2015, 08:02 AM   #8
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Carroll View Post
I unticked and had more options but still none from original reply.
It suggests that either you don't have any of those codecs installed on your machine, or Vegas is not recognising them if you have.

Dave
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Old December 17th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #9
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

By default, the only .avi codec available on a PC is usually "uncompressed" which you will want to avoid as the HD files are absolutely enormous and would not play back without a very fast RAID array.

As other mentioned, there are many codecs that will work as an "intermediate" but you have to first download and install them before they are going to appear in the export options.

I use Lagarith a lot, but it does create large files (though much smaller than Uncompressed HD).

If you download and install the free drivers for a Black Magic Intensity card, you'll get the BlackMagic M-JPEG codec. Matrox and Grass Valley offer similar high-bitrate 4:2:2 codecs as well. Do you have a GoPro? Installing GoPro Studio software should get you the Cineform codec.

Some more info about intermediate codecs and where to find them - http://blog.sharbor.com/blog/2014/06...video-editors/

Thanks
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Old December 17th, 2015, 11:58 AM   #10
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Re: Best render format if rendering twice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baker View Post
It will need to be a lossless, or at least visually lossless, codec. Visually lossless for example, are DNxHD and Cineform. Lossless includes HuffYUV, Lagarith and lossless H264. There are others.

In the end, it depends on what Vegas will put out that Videostudio will accept. (emphasis added)

Dave
^^^This!^^^
One more lossless format that Vegas will render to is Quicktime Animation. Similar to uncompressed AVI in size.
Lossless h264 is not available on Vegas. A very high bitrate can work fine in h264 or WMV, as Jack suggested - it can certainly be visually lossless.
DNxHD can be installed, it will show up as a Quicktime codec.
I myself have never had much luck with HuffYUV, though others find it useful.
Lagarith has been great for me, but you'll need to try a short bit to confirm that Videostudio will accept it.
I've never worked out the Cineform codec (Cineform Studio) workflow, but if it does work for your needs it is excellent in every way.
Sony's native "intermediate" codec (that's what you're doing!) is MXF. Again, that needs testing in Videostudio.

You'll find lots more Vegas experience on the Vegas forum here at DVInfo. It's where the Vegas users tend to hang out, go figure.

And... it is a workflow that could use some serious tweaking! Having said that, once you settle on an intermediate codec that works a lot of the pain should go away.

Do:

*Select a few minutes of content that includes high motion and the poorest lighting to use for testing out your workflow. No need to render for 3 hours to find that a certain codec is a dead end. Test. Test. Test.

*Get thoroughly acquainted with the custom render settings dialog in Vegas. You may not want to invest the time in learning Vegas' titling and other finishing tools, but you must master custom renders to get what you want out of these intermediate codec renders!
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