HDV Distribution - the real issue

[Mike Sakovski]

Thank you all for you detailed answers. Guess i'll be buying the thing most likely this weekend. Thanks again

[Carl Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

If you don't need DVI, your local Comp-USA may stock the I-O Data AVeL LinkPlayer2 which has a better firmware support. I've never been able to find the JVC, which happens to be made for them by I-O Data.

JVC has plenty of the SR-DVD100U's in stock. Simply order one from an authorized JVC Pro reseller. If they don't have it, they can get it from JVC in a few days.

Regards,

[David Kennett]

I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned here (that I noticed) that HD DVD players will play HD DVDs authored onto red laser discs. Normally, HD DVDs are blue laser and hold 15 GB per layer, but the standard also accomodates red laser discs! BlueRay does NOT do this. I have authored several HD DVDs from HDV footage using Ulead Movie Factory 5, and they look great on my Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player.

The procedure is somewhat tricky, but the process is thouroughly described at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146.

[Tom Roper]

David, I have mentioned red-laser HD-DVD a number of times in various threads. And I've been doing it myself. There just doesn't seem to be much interest. Threads like. "How good does HDV downrez'd to SD look?" seem to predominate.

[Mike Schrengohst]

Originally Posted by David Kennett

I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned here (that I noticed) that HD DVD players will play HD DVDs authored onto red laser discs. Normally, HD DVDs are blue laser and hold 15 GB per layer, but the standard also accomodates red laser discs! BlueRay does NOT do this. I have authored several HD DVDs from HDV footage using Ulead Movie Factory 5, and they look great on my Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player.

The procedure is somewhat tricky, but the process is thouroughly described at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146.

That won't work anymore because the firmware has been updated on the newer Toshiba's. That will work with older ones.....
You can always produce a .TS file that is HD and play that in something like an AVel Link Player - JVC has a branded version of this player called the SRDVD-100U that can bought for about $385.00

[Tom Roper]

Originally Posted by Mike Schrengohst

That won't work anymore because the firmware has been updated on the newer Toshiba's. That will work with older ones.....

Source please?

[Mike Schrengohst]

David Saraceno gave me the original tip about producing an HD DVD using only red dyd DVD's.....
He got it to work and I burned about a dozen test discs and went up to Best Buy and nothing would work.....David then posted that the new players with the firmware update would not read the red dyd DVD's....
So a client needed some HD digital signage and I found the JVC unit will playback 1080 24p HD files....through much testing I found the best settings
to use and satisfys the customer need for now. Eventually once DVD SP gets more integrated with HD DVD we plan to move in that direction.

[Tom Roper]

Mike, I suspect your files are not compliant for the following reasons:

1.) New Toshibas are not out yet, they are all the "older" ones at BB at this point, they are firmware upgradeable to the new firmware which has been working fine with HDV. The X-Box HD-DVD add on player has also been working fine.

2.) 24p HDV is not supported on HD-DVD, just 1440x1080i60. That may be your problem right there.

3.) The authoring process is exacting. If for example you're not using version 7 or later of Nero, and select UDF DVD, no multi-session and select X-Box compatibility mode, you won't get the result.

I have the I-O Data AVeL Linkplayer2 which is the maker of the JVC, so I am well familiar with the capabilities, the Swiss Army knife of media players, but unless you give out players, you don't have a distribution format, nor menus.

[Mike Schrengohst]

I followed Davids working formula to a T.....
David mentioned the possibility of firmware
upgrades....I have no idea if the best buy players
are updated......for now customers just want
HD playback for the digital signage, no menus
needed. At $385.00 that is cheaper than the
HD DVD and I can get it to work. It is sharper
and cleaner than the 16:9 SD DVD we delivered
for testing.
Once HD DVD authoring matures I will be right
in there.
For another app we are using ADtec MPEG HD
servers to sync up a 5 screen video I am editing
right now.....sent test files to Adtec and they
are playing with no problems.....

[David Kennett]

Somewhere I read that reading red laser HD DVDs is part of the HD DVD standard. I'm certain many will be ready to confirm that with the G2 models and XBox add-on.

[Tom Roper]

I can appreciate Mike's problem, until you make the first one successfully it's frustrating. I did exactly the same thing, burn a disk, run to BB to try it out because I wasn't going to buy the Toshiba HD-DVD player unless I could make it work. Ultimately in my case, the problem was an older version of Nero. Once I upgraded to the latest it's been 100% always.

I love the I-O Data AVeL LinkPlayer2 (or JVC) because you get immediate gratification, just capture 1440x1080 m2t to disk, stream out to the LinkPlayer2 over a network cable. I wouldn't even know if the component outputs on my HDV cams even work or not. I never bother using them.

The two negatives on the I-O Data or JVC rebrand are:

1.) Sometimes stutters a bit on 25mbps 1080i60 m2t. From the specs, 25 mbps way exceeds the stated bit rate even though it does handle it pretty well.
2.) Horrible EPO (Chinese brand) loader. Many people (like me) who use it to play DVDs will get frustrated with it's poor reading ability on some media, and replace it with a Lite-On or equivalent drive. I've been through two of the EPO drives, now have a Lite-On in there.

[Tomas Chinchilla]

I am a little confused here:

I got the HD DVD player from Toshiba and I must have created at least a dozen HDDVD (Red Laser Dual layers) and I have also updated my firmware with no issues.

PS: The discs were created using DVDSP4

[Mike Schrengohst]

Originally Posted by Tomas Chinchilla

I am a little confused here:

I got the HD DVD player from Toshiba and I must have created at least a dozen HDDVD (Red Laser Dual layers) and I have also updated my firmware with no issues.

PS: The discs were created using DVDSP4

That is good to know, please tell me your receipe and I will see if I can duplicate it....
Thanks

[Giroud Francois]

to go back to original topics i would add:
since the HDV, a really interesting thing happened.
People start to make the difference between content and media.
Before HDV, there was media only. You would not play a video, you would play a VHS, a DVD etc... because the media involve the recorder/player.
since the HDV and the lack of player, people start to store their HD movie into files. Files have format (Divx, wmv, Mpeg2) but for instance they have almost no media (except HDV tape).
So now people can think about creating files and then stores them on mass storage originally not designed for video (usb key, DVD rom, Harddisk, internet) or not allowing to play the content that is stored on (because too slow)
Then people start to think about how to play the file.
Most of us are using PC or Hardisk boxes with video output.
so you just need to copy the file from the storage media to the player.
that is a pretty new way of distributing movies and i think it will be the futur of video.
for about 350$ you can get a box with a huge harddisk (usually over 200gig) that can read almost any HD-codec.
I expect these kind of box to flood the market before HD-DVD or blu-ray players because they are cheaper, give more performance, can be upgradable easily, don't rely on capacity of the media , are available immediately.
the rapsody N-35 and the Dvico TivX-HD M-5000 are the precursor, but expect to see many boxes like this to popup in 2007

[Ken Hodson]

HDV hasn't broken any new ground in these regards. DV cams shoot on mini-DV as well and the media player industry never adopted that format. VHS was the only real format that supported capture and media playback for the masses. The new mini-DVD cams that can be used in DVD players, are the only other example of media capture working with standard media players. Otherwise no cam formats have ever been mass media player compatible.

On a related note the new Xbox360 HD-DVD drives are PC compatible using a standard USB2 interface. They also come in their own enclosure for easy portability and a copy of King Kong. $199 list price.