HD Camera Shootout: "Let the games begin" : In this corner we have.....

Petr Marusek · January 11th, 2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress

I'd also be very keen to hear what the 1080i60 resolution of the HDCAM Cinealta is if it has that mode as well as 24p.

Contrary to the popular belief the resolution is the same in either p or i. The interlaced testing will not uncover anything different.

Graeme Nattress · January 11th, 2006, 07:07 AM

Still, would be wonderful to see a rez chart that shows that, Petr. Do you have any documentation or links on Cinealta 60i / 24p resolution?

Graeme

Kevin Shaw · January 11th, 2006, 07:36 AM

For the camera motion tests (item 2), how about also doing the same thing with the image stabilizers turned on, so we can asssess how well the stabilizers work?

Mike Curtis · January 11th, 2006, 08:56 AM

I would LOVE to be there, but unfortunately cannot. I found out about the test Monday, after I was already in San Francisco for MacWorld, and unfortunately I have to travel back to Austin this morning (Wednesday) for project work on deadline.

I'm VERY much looking forward to the results of this, and am only slightly jealous, since on top of the fact that I can't make it and I've been planning a nearly identical test for February and these guys have beat me to it.

: )

The people involved are all top notch, so this will be a very definitive test of what's going on and how these cameras compare, and I'm going to be checking it all out just as eagerly as everyone else.

Hope all goes smoothly guys, good luck!

All the Best,

-mike

Mike Curtis · January 11th, 2006, 09:02 AM

Oh, and while I'm bluntly a Mac fan, I've been an advocate for the HVX200 in THEORY based on the specs, but after playing with it and seeing footage I'm not convinced it is the best way to go due to noisy shadow detail and a possible softness in 1080 res footage - I don't know if that is due to imperfect focus (boy, a production monitor is REALLY going to help!) during our impromptu tests, or whether the optical resolution of the camera is really closer to 720 res. My gut says (and disclaimer disclaimer, not properly tested) that I think the HVX200's 1080 res footage would not look all that different from the HVX200's 720 res footage with a nice scaling algorithm to uprez to 1080. That in short, the camera is optically, "really" a 720 res kind of a camera. That theory needs to be tested and verified, but that is my currrent sneaking suspicion, based on seeing some footage shot WITHOUT the benefit of a an HD monitor attached to properly focus. Of course, I'd love for this suspicion to be wrong. But as I'm saying more and more often, we'll see, we'll see.

These guys will have a definitive answer shortly.

-mike

Kevin Shaw · January 11th, 2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Curtis

My gut says (and disclaimer disclaimer, not properly tested) that I think the HVX200's 1080 res footage would not look all that different from the HVX200's 720 res footage with a nice scaling algorithm to uprez to 1080.

I've been thinking something similar, and suspect many people will run this camera in 720p/24 mode because that makes sense economically and fits with what many people buying this camera will want. What's ironic about this is that in that mode, it should be feasible to have a camera like this work with standard high-end flash memory cards costing less than half what P2 memory costs per GB. Here's hoping Panasonic considers that option for future models...

Shannon Rawls · January 11th, 2006, 09:35 AM

OH LORD....don't start a fight guys. *smile* Please don't turn this into a 5 page argument.

STOP RIGHT HERE.....

RESIST THE URGE TO REPLY!

ok

Ummm...I have printed out all the requests....I will do my best to do as much as I can. Mike Curtis, wish you were here! Graeme Nattress, wish you were here! I wish a few other people were here too like Douglas Spotted Eagle and Charles Papert & Chris Hurd & Jarred land & Steve Mullen & Barlow & Pappas & Santa Clause & Jesus.

ok...i'm packing up to go park my car on the L.A. Freeway system. People are crazy this time of morning, I think I'll take the junker. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Shannon Rawls · January 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM

It's 9am and nobodys here

remind me to never hire any of these guys for movie crew! *smile*

-ShannonRawls.com

Mike Marriage · January 11th, 2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

It's 9am and nobodys here

remind me to never hire any of these guys for movie crew! *smile*

-ShannonRawls.com

Do we get live updates?

Petr Marusek · January 11th, 2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress

Still, would be wonderful to see a rez chart that shows that, Petr. Do you have any documentation or links on Cinealta 60i / 24p resolution?

I've seen it on a high end Sony 24p monitor, some 1000 lines either way; no difference in resolution between interlaced and progressive. The myth that the resolution is lower when switched to interlaced is total BS.

Graeme Nattress · January 11th, 2006, 03:50 PM

That horizontal or vertical Petr?

Graeme

Petr Marusek · January 11th, 2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress

That horizontal or vertical Petr?

some 1000 lines per picture height vertically and horizontally; vertical resolution is a little better than horizontal; no change in vertical or horizontal resolution when switching to interlaced. Even the older, now discontinued 1080i DVC PRO HD cameras did 1000 lines vertically; not the new ones though. The myth that the 1080 chip 2/3" cameras will not produce 1000 lines in 1080i is BS.

Graeme Nattress · January 11th, 2006, 04:33 PM

What about interlace filtering in interlaced mode. Is there a menu item to turn that on or off?

Graeme

Lucia de Nieva · January 11th, 2006, 05:34 PM

Thank you all in advance for all your efforts.

And Kaku, if you should read this, thank you very much, too. Your night drive in the taxi looked nicely cyberpunkesque. Maybe Chris can do something with your avatar in regard for your constant contributions to the forum.

Ken Hodson · January 11th, 2006, 08:44 PM

Fantastic guys. What an amazing project. All the best with this overwhelming project. I can't wait for the results. You should document everything and sell it to a magazine. It should go down as the comparison benchmark to end all!!
Best of luck.

January 11th, 2006, 07:07 AM	#17
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Still, would be wonderful to see a rez chart that shows that, Petr. Do you have any documentation or links on Cinealta 60i / 24p resolution? Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

January 11th, 2006, 08:56 AM	#19
Mike Curtis HD for Indies Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87	Unfortunately, can't make it, but sooooo wish I could I would LOVE to be there, but unfortunately cannot. I found out about the test Monday, after I was already in San Francisco for MacWorld, and unfortunately I have to travel back to Austin this morning (Wednesday) for project work on deadline. I'm VERY much looking forward to the results of this, and am only slightly jealous, since on top of the fact that I can't make it and I've been planning a nearly identical test for February and these guys have beat me to it. : ) The people involved are all top notch, so this will be a very definitive test of what's going on and how these cameras compare, and I'm going to be checking it all out just as eagerly as everyone else. Hope all goes smoothly guys, good luck! All the Best, -mike __________________ Mike Curtis HD For Indies - Hi Def Filmmaking & Post for Independent Filmmakers http://www.hdforindies.com mike@hdforindies.com

January 11th, 2006, 09:02 AM	#20
Mike Curtis HD for Indies Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87	One More Thing Oh, and while I'm bluntly a Mac fan, I've been an advocate for the HVX200 in THEORY based on the specs, but after playing with it and seeing footage I'm not convinced it is the best way to go due to noisy shadow detail and a possible softness in 1080 res footage - I don't know if that is due to imperfect focus (boy, a production monitor is REALLY going to help!) during our impromptu tests, or whether the optical resolution of the camera is really closer to 720 res. My gut says (and disclaimer disclaimer, not properly tested) that I think the HVX200's 1080 res footage would not look all that different from the HVX200's 720 res footage with a nice scaling algorithm to uprez to 1080. That in short, the camera is optically, "really" a 720 res kind of a camera. That theory needs to be tested and verified, but that is my currrent sneaking suspicion, based on seeing some footage shot WITHOUT the benefit of a an HD monitor attached to properly focus. Of course, I'd love for this suspicion to be wrong. But as I'm saying more and more often, we'll see, we'll see. These guys will have a definitive answer shortly. -mike __________________ Mike Curtis HD For Indies - Hi Def Filmmaking & Post for Independent Filmmakers http://www.hdforindies.com mike@hdforindies.com

January 11th, 2006, 09:35 AM	#22
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	OH LORD....don't start a fight guys. smile Please don't turn this into a 5 page argument. STOP RIGHT HERE..... RESIST THE URGE TO REPLY! ok Ummm...I have printed out all the requests....I will do my best to do as much as I can. Mike Curtis, wish you were here! Graeme Nattress, wish you were here! I wish a few other people were here too like Douglas Spotted Eagle and Charles Papert & Chris Hurd & Jarred land & Steve Mullen & Barlow & Pappas & Santa Clause & Jesus. ok...i'm packing up to go park my car on the L.A. Freeway system. People are crazy this time of morning, I think I'll take the junker. smile - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 11th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#23
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	everybodys late but me... It's 9am and nobodys here remind me to never hire any of these guys for movie crew! smile -ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 11th, 2006, 07:36 AM	#18
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	For the camera motion tests (item 2), how about also doing the same thing with the image stabilizers turned on, so we can asssess how well the stabilizers work?

January 11th, 2006, 03:50 PM	#26
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	That horizontal or vertical Petr? Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

January 11th, 2006, 04:33 PM	#28
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	What about interlace filtering in interlaced mode. Is there a menu item to turn that on or off? Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

January 11th, 2006, 05:34 PM	#29
Lucia de Nieva Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany, Northern Europe Posts: 32	Nice going, boys - thumbs up! Thank you all in advance for all your efforts. And Kaku, if you should read this, thank you very much, too. Your night drive in the taxi looked nicely cyberpunkesque. Maybe Chris can do something with your avatar in regard for your constant contributions to the forum.

January 11th, 2006, 08:44 PM	#30
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Fantastic guys. What an amazing project. All the best with this overwhelming project. I can't wait for the results. You should document everything and sell it to a magazine. It should go down as the comparison benchmark to end all!! Best of luck. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.