HD Camcorder for Sports at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > General HD (720 / 1080) Acquisition

General HD (720 / 1080) Acquisition
Topics about HD production.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 11th, 2007, 09:41 PM   #1
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 3
HD Camcorder for Sports

I am trying to get as much information in my quest for a new camcorder.

I have shot stills for years but now want video of my 2 highschool boys playing lacrosse.

I definately want to go to High Def but now I'm trying to figure out if I will get the best results recording in interlaced or progressive. I think the answer to that is to record in 60i.

So far my top 2 choices for camera are the Sony HDR-FX7 and the Canon XH-A1. I'd really like to keep the cost as low as possible however when spending in the nieghborhood of $3000 I want to make the right choice.

I think the sony would suit my needs just fine as long as I don't need to get below its 7lux rating. The more challenging lighting will be at night in high school stadiums. For the most part I prefer to point and shoot. I don't mind making manual adjustments as necessary but I probably will just set the camera and then just record.

Any help or advice is apreciated,

Thanks
Sam DeRosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 07:26 PM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
Posts: 105
Just be aware that in most cases, high-action and HDV don't match. The codecs are all about efficiency and fast moving, full frame action tends to trip them up. The result is a remarkable loss of detail.

So, I recommend renting them first and reviewing the footage. It may be fine for you but, I would check it out first.

-gl
__________________
http://www.motoxpress.com
George Loch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco, California
Posts: 487
I disagree with that statement that HDV can't deal with fast action. I've recorded a large amount of fast action sports, and HDV is able to handle it without breaking a sweat. Now, to Sam, I'm sure you'd be satisfied with either of the cameras you mentioned, but if you're primarily going to just point-and-shoot, why don't you go for something a little cheaper and more consumer oriented? The Sony HC5/HC7, or the Canon HV10/HV20 are some cameras I think you should take a look at.
Chris Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 09:50 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
Posts: 105
Hmmm...Do you have examples of your success? I am very curious to see these and how you shot them. All of the HDV sports examples I have seen do not support your confidence. The only manufacture I know of that has done anything to improve it is JVC and they are still not there.

I also question the use of consumer cams. If this is an evening shoot the noise will be too much to make anything useful.

-gl
__________________
http://www.motoxpress.com
George Loch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2007, 10:53 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Olathe, Kansas
Posts: 309
Hi Sam,

Just curious as to what software you plan on editing with, what media you'll be puting out to, what player you'll be playing back with, and what TV you are planing to use to watch the HighDef ??

Harold
Harold Schreiber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #6
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Schreiber View Post
Hi Sam,

Just curious as to what software you plan on editing with, what media you'll be puting out to, what player you'll be playing back with, and what TV you are planing to use to watch the HighDef ??

Harold
I've tried versions of Adobe premiere pro, Sony Vegas 7 and Adobe premeire elements 3. So far I like adobe premiere elements 3 the best. That is for standard DVD. I have not yet figured out if there is way and if so how to burn the DVD in 480p vs 480i.

As for viewing in HD, I will use the camcorder to watch through a home theater projector based system.
Sam DeRosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2007, 11:20 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Loch View Post
Just be aware that in most cases, high-action and HDV don't match. The codecs are all about efficiency and fast moving, full frame action tends to trip them up. The result is a remarkable loss of detail.

l
I'm not sure where that is coming from, I see no reason why 60i hdv will not be fine for your purposes.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 8th, 2007, 11:24 PM   #8
Tourist
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Peachtree City, GA
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harris View Post
I disagree with that statement that HDV can't deal with fast action. I've recorded a large amount of fast action sports, and HDV is able to handle it without breaking a sweat. Now, to Sam, I'm sure you'd be satisfied with either of the cameras you mentioned, but if you're primarily going to just point-and-shoot, why don't you go for something a little cheaper and more consumer oriented? The Sony HC5/HC7, or the Canon HV10/HV20 are some cameras I think you should take a look at.
Thanks to all for the advice. Main reasons for considering the jump up-- I don't like that nearly all the manual controls are menu driven and sometimes deep into the menus on the very compact consumer type cameras. The Sony HDR fx7 had easy access buttons to control shutter gain and aperature. I also like the 20x optical vs the 10x optical of the consumer models. I was at a store that carried all of these Camcorders I just didnt like the feel of the smaller cameras. Also I didn't like the touch screen menus of the sony hc5/hc7.

Leaning strongly towards the HDR-fx7 as it is less than the Canon xh-a1 and I think it will be advanced enough to do what I need but not so advanced that I would be buying features I might never use.

Thanks again for all the help,

Sam
Sam DeRosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 12:15 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Sam, you should also consider FX1. Similar in price. Difference in lux ratings may be worth it to you.

I am attaching small bit of footage from FX1 taken at dusk inside a car in traffic. The motion issues raised above should be there if they exist. Remember this is highly compressed footage...
Attached Files
File Type: wmv traffic.wmv (1.29 MB, 704 views)
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 12:27 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
Heres another fun clip from FX1.
Attached Files
File Type: wmv A2attack.wmv (1.30 MB, 632 views)
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 01:53 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: .
Posts: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos View Post
I'm not sure where that is coming from, I see no reason why 60i hdv will not be fine for your purposes.
Have you actually looked at high action HDV samples? Most footage floating around shows outdoor scenes with slow pans over a lake of birds. The reason HDV is actually NOT ideal for sports is due to the limited bandwidth and the long GOP. It results in blur and loss of detail. JVC has made some improvements to the codec but not enough to fully oversome this.

-gl
__________________
http://www.motoxpress.com
George Loch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 05:18 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Pinellas Park
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Loch View Post
Have you actually looked at high action HDV samples? Most footage floating around shows outdoor scenes with slow pans over a lake of birds. The reason HDV is actually NOT ideal for sports is due to the limited bandwidth and the long GOP. It results in blur and loss of detail. JVC has made some improvements to the codec but not enough to fully oversome this.

-gl
I agree. HDV with its MPEG 2 long GOP is not well suited for the quick action of sports; however, the artifacts from HDV might be acceptable for consumer use. My theory is... why spend all those dollars for HDV when it's not going to look that much better than DV SD? I guess to have the capability of HD.

I wonder how the new JVC HD7 would perform? It uses 1/5th inch chips, so the sensitivity would be compromised, forget I mentioned it. I would ask you to take a look at the new AVCHD models, except they either have small sensors (poor sensitivity in low light) or a short lens.

Since you want the larger lens, I would say the best low cost HDV choice for your needs would be the Canon XHA1. The FX7 has the 1/4 inch CMOS sensors, which suffer in low light. You also have a lot more control with the Canon model, definitely worth the few extra bucks. No HDMI, but you do have component out.
John Bosco Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elk Grove CA
Posts: 6,838
I indicate FX1 if poster is trying to keep it around $3000. I do believe Canon's A-1 comes in a bit higher-- almost $4,000. But I agree it would be superior because of the features available on.

HDV is a tool, that can get you into HD tv easily. Obviously, the more cash you want to lay out, the better you will do. And you can move compeletely out of HDV at some price point. There can be motion issues, but most are worked around without hassle. And I haven't seen the "end of the world" results being spoken of here by some people. Fast pans and jerky hand held footage is bad in any format, and HDV will accentuate it. HDV will also accentuate poor focus. But don't confuse its more demanding perameters with an inability to capture motion, or present a beautiful crisp picture.
__________________
Chris J. Barcellos
Chris Barcellos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 03:08 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
I agree with Chris, that an FX1 might be a better choice than an FX7, at about the same cost, for shooting the night games at a high school stadium.
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2007, 07:48 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Francisco, California
Posts: 487
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Loch View Post
Have you actually looked at high action HDV samples? Most footage floating around shows outdoor scenes with slow pans over a lake of birds.
Have you looked at Chris Barcellos' HDV samples? They look very nice. Just as nice as everything else I've shot on my own HDV equipment. If this is not enough proof of just how robust of a codec HDV really is, I can post some HDV clips in the native HDV codec later on.
Chris Harris is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > High Definition Video Acquisition > General HD (720 / 1080) Acquisition

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:18 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network