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All flavors of Edius; other Grass Valley / Canopus software & hardware.


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Old July 22nd, 2004, 11:53 AM   #1
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canopus, matrox or none at all

Hi, I am wanting to put together a new computer and purchase an XL 2. Currently I am running a 1.5g amd, 1.5g ram, 2-120g hd's raided for video, 1-120g hd for programs and another 120g for music all four running at 7200. I have a matrox rt 2000 premier 6.1 and windows xp pro.
The system is very unstable, about 2 weeks to one month is about what I get before it crashes so hard I have to take it in to a pro to fix. It is always locking up or rebooting it self etc.
I noticed in the xl2 watchdog Chris said the canopus is the editing package of choice. I was contemplating the matrox 100 and adobe premier 1.5 pro to go into a new amd machine. Am I being ignorant thinking it would work without the problems I see daily from my old system? Or is there a better system for the same money that I should consider?
P.S. I also travel with this system but I take very good care not to bounce it around.
Thanks TL
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 01:05 PM   #2
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YOu can download a demo of Edius from Canopus. Fewer features than Premiere but blazing fast with very high quality.

AMD has, in the past, not been as good a choice for video editing. Not because of the processors themselves but because of the support chips and BIOS.

Intel just seems more main stream.

NOT that you cannot build a very good editing system with AMD products, just that it seems like the video editing sofware is first coded for Intel processors and chipsets.

I personally own and operate two DVRexRT systems on 3.2 Ghz Intel HT processors with 1 gig of memory all installed on Asus P4C800E motherboards running Edius and XP Pro. These systems are fundamentally bullet proof.

The current Storm2 systems are just as fast and stable.
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 02:04 PM   #3
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Hi Mike, thanks for the reply, one more question is.... I have several years used adobe products so the thought of changing is un nerving but if I have to I will. What do you think?
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 07:52 PM   #4
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edius is nice, it takes advantag eof the storm card, edius is a very "real time" app...everything is instant, full resolution, out to an ntsc monitor and dv deck...

edius 2.5 has been much improved and i can now consider it a good nle...

with that said your 1.7 amd may not cut the mustard for edius alone, so you should loo into getting a storm card as well

ppro is an excellent app, but if the last premiere you used was 6.1 your still going to have a learning curve as there is a big diference between ppro and premiere 6.1
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 09:30 AM   #5
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1- Intel's Pentium line ("C" and "E" models of the Pentiums in particular) generally has a slight performance edge over AMD64 processors. The Pentiums generally have a good lead in tests with the Main Concept Encoder (which is common and used by Premiere Pro AFAIK). For different programs and different benchmarks results will vary.

Also, with Intel, the chipsets are generally more problem-free. On the Intel side, you can get Intel chipsets which historically have been very problem free. Now you can get Sis chipsets for Intel platforms (I don't know too much about how stable they are, but they seem to perform just as well if not better). On the AMD side, you could have gotten some crappy chipsets in the past (Via). The nForce chipsets for the current AMD64 processors seem to be issue-free.

2-
Quote:
The system is very unstable, about 2 weeks to one month is about what I get before it crashes so hard I have to take it in to a pro to fix. It is always locking up or rebooting it self etc.
If XP Pro, you can tell it not to reboot itself so you'll get a BSOD (blue screen of death) instead.
control panel --> system --> advanced (tab) --> startup and recovery (section) --> settings (button) --> uncheck automatically restart

If your BSODs give consistently the same message then you likely have a software problem of some sort (probably a bad driver).

If your BSODs give different message each time, you probably have a hardware problem.

In either case your system has problems if it BSODs... I would consider getting a new system that is stable. If you go with NLE apps that can run into configuration issues (Premiere with hardware acceleration, Avid), then consider going the turnkey route or finding a working recipe of parts from people who own rock solid systems.

If you may want to switch NLEs (Premiere 6.x and before leaves a little to be desired), then try demoing the various NLEs out there. Avid, Final Cut, Vegas, Edition, Premiere Pro, etc.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 04:18 PM   #6
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Premeire Pro is a monumental jump from Premiere 6.x. The interface, workflow and overall stability is dramatically improved. That said, I think serious editors will find that Premiere Pro w/ RTX100 is a better solution then just Premiere Pro on its own. Even in a very fast machine, the real-time performance will start to lag with a couple of layers and filters applied. By lag I mean the frame rate will slow down in order to maintain the
real-time preview. While this 'scaled preview' is positioned as a feature, I think that the editors on this list will find the accelerated real-time performance worth the extra investment.

The WYSIWYG output from both After Effects and Encore DVD to a TV monitor is a really nice feature that can save you lots of time and effort.

The single pass scan & capture utility automatically captures and breaks your video into scenes on the fly. You can then trim each clip or delete the ones you don't want.

The RTX100 will also encode the timeline to MPEG2 in real-time. So a 1 hour timeline talkes 1 hour to encode - at very good quality I might ad. If you need better quality you can select the Ligos MPEG2 encoder with a wide range of settings. This will take longer, but if you need it, it's there.

You also get all the cool Matrox 3D FX, transitions and filters. Apply them to titles and graphics for some really cools sequences. The RTX100 aslo gives you real-time performance from the Premeire Pro Motion control - so PIPs are sweet!

Gary
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 09:46 PM   #7
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Hi all, thanks for the help. Glen as much as I dont want to see the blue screen of death at least that's a route to finding out weather I have a hardware or software problem right? I dont mind changing to Intel except for the money. If it's software I guess that means incompatability with old matrox and xp, or adobe??? Maby this is the time to take matrox out and just use this machine for digital still manipulating and printing, and build a new one for video and stills. In that case Gary what do you think, you seem pretty happy with matrox and PP 1.5, should I look further. Do you have any experience with other nle's? Thanks again TL
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Old July 24th, 2004, 08:57 AM   #8
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Terry,
We carry all the major Windows bades NLEs - Premeire Pro (alone & with cards like RTX100 or DV Storm), Liquid Edition, Vegas 5, Avid Xpress. Each has it's own strengths.

What I will say is that all of the above offer you a very good NLE solution. Gone are the days when most NLEs where problamatic and you needed a computer science degree to make them run properly.

Todays NLEs are software based. If you add hardware it's for additional I/O or features, not to make the software run. In a new computer, tweaked for Video, with plenty of RAM and a good graphics card you're going to get great results.

Ont eh Videoguys website you'll find articles on tweaking your computer, tech support tips, system recommendations and hands on product reviews. here is a link to our real-time NLE software comparison. The article is now almost a year old, but it's still useful http://www.videoguys.com/RT5.html

Disclaimer - Our reviews are biased - we want you to buy NLE stuff. But they are still quite informative.

Gary
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Old July 24th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #9
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Thanks Gary, I sure appreciate the help! OK so it looks like Premier or Avid and Matrox or Canopus. My machine spec wise was ok for what I have but I think I will build a new one with Intel parts. So Gary please give me your opinion between my two hardware and software choices. If you dont want to I still appreciate the help that link was great. TL
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Old July 24th, 2004, 11:32 AM   #10
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Right now I give the RTX100 w/ Premerie Pro my top rating for any Premeire Pro solution.

Canopus has released very good drivers for Premerie Pro 1.5 w/ DV Storm. It looks like they have resoved most issues. Edius is Canopus' own software that they have written for their hardware. Edius is pretty cool, and you can get some incredible real-time performance from it. But Edius is not Premeire. It doesn't have the feature set, 3rd party support or available training that Premeire Pro does.

Give us a call on Monday. We'll help you ge tthte right gear. 800 323-2325

Gary
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Old July 24th, 2004, 10:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Hi all, thanks for the help. Glen as much as I dont want to see the blue screen of death at least that's a route to finding out weather I have a hardware or software problem right?
Yes, that's right. I prefer seeing the BSOD to windows automatically rebooting as the BSOD can be informative.

Quote:
I dont mind changing to Intel except for the money.
Pentium4 "C" and AMD64 systems run approximately equal in cost.

Quote:
If it's software I guess that means incompatability with old matrox and xp, or adobe??? Maby this is the time to take matrox out and just use this machine for digital still manipulating and printing, and build a new one for video and stills.
I don't know if the Matrox card is causing you problems. You could try uninstalling and removing it (watch out for killing computer parts with static).

2- Terry, check out the demos for the respective products to see which one works best for you. A lot depends on personal taste and the kind of work you do.

You could also start a new thread on which NLE to get. In that case, make sure you post what you want to do with your NLE (i.e. corporate stuff, weddings, music videos, documentaries, etc.) and what your budget is.

3- If you want a computer you can carry around easily, check out the Antec Lanboy case. I have one at work: the case is *very* light. I don't know about the Super LANboy (it does not come with a PSU, which means the PSU you put in may be heavier than the one in the LANboy).

You might want to put a case fan on the normal LANboy though (80mm is the size I think).
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Old July 26th, 2004, 07:22 PM   #12
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Well you guys are awesome!!! I sure appreciate your help. Glen those lanboy cases looked great. I think I even read they have a little shock absorption incorporated in them also. And Gary one last question, if this isn't comparing apples to oranges, whats the difference between Premier Pro 1.5 and Avid. Do I need to think about Avid? Thanks again you guys I think I'm almost there.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 07:43 PM   #13
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It's not as apples and oranges as it used to be. Premerie Pro has gotten a more "avid' feel to it.

Both programs are very good. If you go with premerie Pro, run it with the RTX100. The increased real-time performance, utilities, features and Matrox 3F filters and FX make it quite a winning combination.

Avid is the standard in broadcast TV, and Hollywood. While FCP has made in roads, the post houses still go for Avid. I think with Avids DNA hardware technology and their new HD CODEC strategy they will win back a lot of custoemrs.

Avid DNxHD is a revolutionary, 10- and 8-bit HD encoding technology that delivers mastering-quality HD media with storage bandwidth and capacity requirements rivaling those of uncompressed standard-definition (SD) files. Specifically engineered for multi-generation editing, the quality and efficiency of Avid DNxHD-encoded HD media enables real-time collaborative HD production in networked environments. The source code for Avid DNxHD will be licensable free of charge through the Avid Website as a download to any user who wants to compile it on any platform.

Avid does take getting used to. First and foremost you have to "unlearn" the current way you edit and learn the Avid way. This can be frustrating if you try and edit on Avid the way you are used to editing. Many users will report banging their heads against the wall and the interface. This is user induced frustration. If you take the time to learn and understand the Avid way of editing, then use Avid the way it was designed to be used, you'll find it the best pure editor around. Forma cutting, trimming and organizing you media perspective nothing else comes close.

Avid's not for everyone, but if you are going to be editing often, with muliple long and short format projects going at once, you'll find Avid extremely productive. The more time you spend editing, the more you'll apprecaite your Avid.

It's really a matter of choice, based on your needs and style of editing. I'm a hack, so I rely on 3D transitions and flying PIPs to cover for my poor camera work and planning. The RTX100 is a great fit for me.

Gary
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Old July 27th, 2004, 02:02 AM   #14
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Thanks Gary, it sounds like Adobe, Matrox and Intel. I sure appreciate all the time and experience you guys have shared. It will be nice to do some glitch free editing hopefully in the near future. Thanks again for your time.
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Old August 19th, 2004, 10:39 PM   #15
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Hello guys,

just wondering if anyone knows if that Matrox card will do WYSIWYG out to Pal monitors/TVs ?


I'm using a PAL DVX 100A, and of course PAL tv standard in Asia here .
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