Canopus Eduis 3.0 Vs. Liquid Edition 6.0 For HDV Capture and Real time editing

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 09:26 AM

That’s fine but that phrase just about sums up cineforms HDV solution, its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. Sorry if I offended anyone not trying to do that just trying to have people who responded to my post understand what i am feeling inside. that’s all.

Joel

Ed Szarleta · March 22nd, 2005, 09:57 AM

Why don't you tell us why it's a ripoff Joel. I am sure everyone would love to hear your reasons and it might add valitdity to you claim. (although I doubt it). :)

Darren Kelly · March 22nd, 2005, 10:04 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : ..... its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. ......Joel -->>>

It's not a rip off Joel. The product does everything the product advertises. I'm not sure what you expected.

It's also been updated over the past 12 months, and the price has beend dropped. Adobe liked it so much they bought part of the technology behind it, so frankly, your statements are unfounded.

Now, if you want to do what others have suggested and outline your actual complaints rather than generic phrases, perhaps you are using it wrong, or have some hardware-software issues the board can help with.

Hope this helps

DBK

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 10:11 AM

Well Ed for one thing,

At 499.00 you are getting a fastidious plug-in not a actual NLE. You can purchase Canopus Edius 3.x which has NATIVE HDV REAL TIME EDITING for 200.00 USD more. You can also monitor your HDV capture and once again there is no intermediate codec to transcode to first before you can edit. (MUCH BETTER WORK FLOW) That alone is currently a PRICELESS feature. There are only 2 NLE's under $1,000.00 that offer REAL TIME NATIVE HDV EDITING SOLUTIONS; EDIUS AND LIQUID EDITION. That is why I started this thread, to discuss who is using what and who is getting the best results.

thanks,

joel

Darren Kelly · March 22nd, 2005, 10:23 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : Well Ed for one thing,

At 499.00 you are getting a fastidious plug-in not a actual NLE. joel -->>>

OK, so you don't like buying plugins.

If you really like using Premiere Pro, the plugin gives you some significant abilities not otherwise available to you.

Also, many people don't want to edit in native MPEG2 due to the technical limitations the GOP frames offer.

Even Canopus in the hardware version of their product recommend using their HD codec instead of the native HDV codec, which they do support natively.

I'm using that system, and I like it because of the additional Real time I get, and the external monitoring.

Does this help?

DBK

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 10:28 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : <<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : ..... its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. ......Joel -->>>

It's not a rip off Joel. The product does everything the product advertises. I'm not sure what you expected.

It's also been updated over the past 12 months, and the price has beend dropped. Adobe liked it so much they bought part of the technology behind it, so frankly, your statements are unfounded.

Now, if you want to do what others have suggested and outline your actual complaints rather than generic phrases, perhaps you are using it wrong, or have some hardware-software issues the board can help with.

Hope this helps

DBK -->>>

Daren,

Yes it does most of what it advertises most of the time. I have been using adobe premiere since version 5.0 but their decision to make Cineform there HDV solution is a temporally quick fix. I can expect that Adobe; in there v2.x will have a much better solution, whether it is with Cineform or there own developed software technology. Because of their 1.5.1 update was less than what I expected, I now use Eduis for all HDV editing and continue to use PPRO 1.5 for SD projects. Cineform will eventually be a practical solution for HDV, so maybe in time my views will be different on this software but for now my moneys on Canopus. Does not anyone here agree that cineform's plugin is far more inferior to Liquid Edition or Edius 3.x?

joel

Chris Hurd · March 22nd, 2005, 10:29 AM

Joel Corral:

<< This will probably be deleted as well but at least i tried. >>

I will not tolerate vulgarity on my message boards. Keep your vocabulary clean or I'll clean it up for you. Patently offensive and crass remarks have no place here whatsoever, no matter what the perceived justification for them may be. Please try to get into the spirit of the proceedings here. I don't think you would use that sort of language in a business presentation, so don't use it online. I want this community to reflect some degree of professional standards. Thanks,

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 10:34 AM

Sorry Chris, I won't say it again. but for the record I guess it depends on who you are dealing with and your surrounding environment, I am from California and have worked in the action sports industry for about 10 years that and phrases like that are the norm.

Steven Gotz · March 22nd, 2005, 10:34 AM

I understand that you are excited about your new workflow Joel, but for people who already own Premiere Pro 1.5, the additional cost is only $499 as you said. So lets address the real costs involved besides the additional $200.

The learning curve for a new NLE is steep. And while if your claims are correct, Edius does not make you wait for a conversion - which is a bit annoying but not terrible - it is missing some of the other features found in Premiere Pro. And probably more important, it does not integrate with the rest of the Adobe products as well as Premiere Pro.

From what I have read, the Cineform solution is better for people with less powerful PCs. My own editing PC is only a single 3.06GHz CPU - not powerful by today's standards. Yet I get great results from the Cineform solution.

By the way, if you prefer editing M2T, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 can do the job using the MainConcept plugin for less money than Cineform. And, in fact, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 - a free upgrade, can edit HDV just fine. Slow, but it does the job. For free.

So, I am happy you are pleased with your solution. I have purchased Canopus products in the past. I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now.

But namecalling is unwarranted. Everyone has different needs.

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 10:41 AM

The learning curve for a new NLE is steep. And while if your claims are correct, Edius does not make you wait for a conversion - which is a bit annoying but not terrible - it is missing some of the other features found in Premiere Pro. And probably more important, it does not integrate with the rest of the Adobe products as well as Premiere Pro.

From what I have read, the Cineform solution is better for people with less powerful PCs. My own editing PC is only a single 3.06GHz CPU - not powerful by today's standards. Yet I get great results from the Cineform solution.

By the way, if you prefer editing M2T, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 can do the job using the MainConcept plugin for less money than Cineform. And, in fact, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 - a free upgrade, can edit HDV just fine. Slow, but it does the job. For free.

So, I am happy you are pleased with your solution. I have purchased Canopus products in the past. I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now.

But namecalling is unwarranted. Everyone has different needs. -->>>

You know Steven,

I thought I would have a hard time learning Edius but its very simple and has a classic UI (user interface) and surprisingly it works great with adobe products.

Darren Kelly · March 22nd, 2005, 10:42 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Gotz : I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now.

Actually, I believe Canopus has a $400 rebate for owners of DVStorm on the purchase of the Edius NX system. Visit thier web site, but the last time I checked that's how it worked.

DBK

Joel Corral · March 22nd, 2005, 10:46 AM

wow an even better reason to love it. to bad i didn't own DVstorm. Great Value, I am tell you guys.

Chris Hurd · March 22nd, 2005, 10:47 AM

I appreciate that, Joel,

<< I am from California and have worked in the action sports industry for about 10 years that and phrases like that are the norm. >>

I find that easy to believe! It's a very broad, diverse audience here, and since this is a text-based discussion it's also very difficult to accurately convey any number of emotions without offending somebody somewhere. I've found that it's really best just to stick with the technical side of things. This way the threads are streamlined and easier to read. That's why we take serious efforts to avoid politics, religion, vulgarity, anything that would detract from a purely technical exchange. Thanks for understanding,

Steven Gotz · March 22nd, 2005, 11:23 AM

By the way, you can cross-grade to Edius for only $499 - which actually makes Joel's argument a bit stronger. Plus you get some other cool stuff - like a keyboard.

I believe that the trade-in period is over. Besides, my PC isn't powerful enough to handle the new hardware. It only matches the minimum speed. I won't be upgrading until at least this summer. The trip to Greece this June is taking all my serious cash.

Ed Szarleta · March 22nd, 2005, 11:32 AM

I was not aware Edius edited in Long GOP. I own LE and a dual Xeon 3Ghz box and Long GOP editing is painfull compared to AspectHD. I can't imagine Edius being better than LE 6.1 in native HDV, but I never used it. Conversion to CFHD is a minor inconvience compared the the enhanced editing speed imo. Others might disagree.

For what it's worth, the upgrade to NX uses an intermediate codec, so I would assume Canopus themselves is siding with Cineform on recommended workflow. What do you guys think?

March 22nd, 2005, 10:04 AM	#63
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : ..... its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. ......Joel -->>> It's not a rip off Joel. The product does everything the product advertises. I'm not sure what you expected. It's also been updated over the past 12 months, and the price has beend dropped. Adobe liked it so much they bought part of the technology behind it, so frankly, your statements are unfounded. Now, if you want to do what others have suggested and outline your actual complaints rather than generic phrases, perhaps you are using it wrong, or have some hardware-software issues the board can help with. Hope this helps DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

March 22nd, 2005, 10:23 AM	#65
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : Well Ed for one thing, At 499.00 you are getting a fastidious plug-in not a actual NLE. joel -->>> OK, so you don't like buying plugins. If you really like using Premiere Pro, the plugin gives you some significant abilities not otherwise available to you. Also, many people don't want to edit in native MPEG2 due to the technical limitations the GOP frames offer. Even Canopus in the hardware version of their product recommend using their HD codec instead of the native HDV codec, which they do support natively. I'm using that system, and I like it because of the additional Real time I get, and the external monitoring. Does this help? DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

March 22nd, 2005, 10:29 AM	#67
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Joel Corral: << This will probably be deleted as well but at least i tried. >> I will not tolerate vulgarity on my message boards. Keep your vocabulary clean or I'll clean it up for you. Patently offensive and crass remarks have no place here whatsoever, no matter what the perceived justification for them may be. Please try to get into the spirit of the proceedings here. I don't think you would use that sort of language in a business presentation, so don't use it online. I want this community to reflect some degree of professional standards. Thanks, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 22nd, 2005, 10:34 AM	#69
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	I understand that you are excited about your new workflow Joel, but for people who already own Premiere Pro 1.5, the additional cost is only $499 as you said. So lets address the real costs involved besides the additional $200. The learning curve for a new NLE is steep. And while if your claims are correct, Edius does not make you wait for a conversion - which is a bit annoying but not terrible - it is missing some of the other features found in Premiere Pro. And probably more important, it does not integrate with the rest of the Adobe products as well as Premiere Pro. From what I have read, the Cineform solution is better for people with less powerful PCs. My own editing PC is only a single 3.06GHz CPU - not powerful by today's standards. Yet I get great results from the Cineform solution. By the way, if you prefer editing M2T, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 can do the job using the MainConcept plugin for less money than Cineform. And, in fact, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 - a free upgrade, can edit HDV just fine. Slow, but it does the job. For free. So, I am happy you are pleased with your solution. I have purchased Canopus products in the past. I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now. But namecalling is unwarranted. Everyone has different needs. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

March 22nd, 2005, 10:42 AM	#71
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Gotz : I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now. Actually, I believe Canopus has a $400 rebate for owners of DVStorm on the purchase of the Edius NX system. Visit thier web site, but the last time I checked that's how it worked. DBK __________________ Darren Kelly

March 22nd, 2005, 09:26 AM	#61
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	That’s fine but that phrase just about sums up cineforms HDV solution, its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. Sorry if I offended anyone not trying to do that just trying to have people who responded to my post understand what i am feeling inside. that’s all. Joel

March 22nd, 2005, 09:57 AM	#62
Ed Szarleta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 156	Why don't you tell us why it's a ripoff Joel. I am sure everyone would love to hear your reasons and it might add valitdity to you claim. (although I doubt it). :)

March 22nd, 2005, 10:11 AM	#64
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	Well Ed for one thing, At 499.00 you are getting a fastidious plug-in not a actual NLE. You can purchase Canopus Edius 3.x which has NATIVE HDV REAL TIME EDITING for 200.00 USD more. You can also monitor your HDV capture and once again there is no intermediate codec to transcode to first before you can edit. (MUCH BETTER WORK FLOW) That alone is currently a PRICELESS feature. There are only 2 NLE's under $1,000.00 that offer REAL TIME NATIVE HDV EDITING SOLUTIONS; EDIUS AND LIQUID EDITION. That is why I started this thread, to discuss who is using what and who is getting the best results. thanks, joel

March 22nd, 2005, 10:28 AM	#66
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	<<<-- Originally posted by Darren Kelly : <<<-- Originally posted by Joel Corral : ..... its just a plain rip off and doesn't make sense. ......Joel -->>> It's not a rip off Joel. The product does everything the product advertises. I'm not sure what you expected. It's also been updated over the past 12 months, and the price has beend dropped. Adobe liked it so much they bought part of the technology behind it, so frankly, your statements are unfounded. Now, if you want to do what others have suggested and outline your actual complaints rather than generic phrases, perhaps you are using it wrong, or have some hardware-software issues the board can help with. Hope this helps DBK -->>> Daren, Yes it does most of what it advertises most of the time. I have been using adobe premiere since version 5.0 but their decision to make Cineform there HDV solution is a temporally quick fix. I can expect that Adobe; in there v2.x will have a much better solution, whether it is with Cineform or there own developed software technology. Because of their 1.5.1 update was less than what I expected, I now use Eduis for all HDV editing and continue to use PPRO 1.5 for SD projects. Cineform will eventually be a practical solution for HDV, so maybe in time my views will be different on this software but for now my moneys on Canopus. Does not anyone here agree that cineform's plugin is far more inferior to Liquid Edition or Edius 3.x? joel

March 22nd, 2005, 10:41 AM	#70
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	The learning curve for a new NLE is steep. And while if your claims are correct, Edius does not make you wait for a conversion - which is a bit annoying but not terrible - it is missing some of the other features found in Premiere Pro. And probably more important, it does not integrate with the rest of the Adobe products as well as Premiere Pro. From what I have read, the Cineform solution is better for people with less powerful PCs. My own editing PC is only a single 3.06GHz CPU - not powerful by today's standards. Yet I get great results from the Cineform solution. By the way, if you prefer editing M2T, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 can do the job using the MainConcept plugin for less money than Cineform. And, in fact, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 - a free upgrade, can edit HDV just fine. Slow, but it does the job. For free. So, I am happy you are pleased with your solution. I have purchased Canopus products in the past. I own a DVStorm2 I really need to get rid of on EBay since it is useless to me now. But namecalling is unwarranted. Everyone has different needs. -->>> You know Steven, I thought I would have a hard time learning Edius but its very simple and has a classic UI (user interface) and surprisingly it works great with adobe products.

March 22nd, 2005, 10:46 AM	#72
Joel Corral Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brea, CA Posts: 356	wow an even better reason to love it. to bad i didn't own DVstorm. Great Value, I am tell you guys.

March 22nd, 2005, 10:47 AM	#73
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	I appreciate that, Joel, << I am from California and have worked in the action sports industry for about 10 years that and phrases like that are the norm. >> I find that easy to believe! It's a very broad, diverse audience here, and since this is a text-based discussion it's also very difficult to accurately convey any number of emotions without offending somebody somewhere. I've found that it's really best just to stick with the technical side of things. This way the threads are streamlined and easier to read. That's why we take serious efforts to avoid politics, religion, vulgarity, anything that would detract from a purely technical exchange. Thanks for understanding, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 22nd, 2005, 11:23 AM	#74
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	By the way, you can cross-grade to Edius for only $499 - which actually makes Joel's argument a bit stronger. Plus you get some other cool stuff - like a keyboard. I believe that the trade-in period is over. Besides, my PC isn't powerful enough to handle the new hardware. It only matches the minimum speed. I won't be upgrading until at least this summer. The trip to Greece this June is taking all my serious cash. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

March 22nd, 2005, 11:32 AM	#75
Ed Szarleta Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 156	I was not aware Edius edited in Long GOP. I own LE and a dual Xeon 3Ghz box and Long GOP editing is painfull compared to AspectHD. I can't imagine Edius being better than LE 6.1 in native HDV, but I never used it. Conversion to CFHD is a minor inconvience compared the the enhanced editing speed imo. Others might disagree. For what it's worth, the upgrade to NX uses an intermediate codec, so I would assume Canopus themselves is siding with Cineform on recommended workflow. What do you guys think?