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Old July 18th, 2011, 11:17 AM   #1
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How much sharpness can I add in post?

I shoot top-dog in an NX5 and it looks grand on my Edius 5.5 timeline. Then I downconvert it to SD either by using the 2-click method in Edius (settings / project settings) or the seemingly 55-click settings in Virtual dub. The latter is Much Better BTW.

After monitoring HD all day the standard-def looks ghastly. I know I shouldn't, but I'm rather drawn to the Edius sharpness filter, a slider that seems to do very little from 0 - 18, then makes what appears to be a good improvement up to about 50, and from this point on becomes ludicrous, even for special effects freaks.

So am I wrong to slap on a 30 sharpness filter? Does it spoil the MPEG encoding to DVD or something? It certainly looks better on the timeline.

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Old July 18th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #2
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

Tom I find TMPGenc does a better job of downconverting than the lengthy VDub process. I export HQ fine from timeline and let TMPGenc do downconvert and encode. When I tried the VDub approach I felt I needed to bring back into EDius and add sharpen by 15 and also add some chroma too to get anywhere near the output from TMPGenc. Very lengthy rather than just let TMPGenc do it and then go straight to authoring in DVDLab Pro or DVD Architect

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Old July 18th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #3
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

I use 25-30 sharpness on Sony camera footage when I intercut with DSLRs on a 1440x1080 timeline. Results looks good! in SD.
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Old July 18th, 2011, 08:47 PM   #4
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick View Post
I shoot top-dog in an NX5 and it looks grand on my Edius 5.5 timeline. Then I downconvert it to SD either by using the 2-click method in Edius (settings / project settings) or the seemingly 55-click settings in Virtual dub. The latter is Much Better BTW.

After monitoring HD all day the standard-def looks ghastly. I know I shouldn't, but I'm rather drawn to the Edius sharpness filter, a slider that seems to do very little from 0 - 18, then makes what appears to be a good improvement up to about 50, and from this point on becomes ludicrous, even for special effects freaks.

So am I wrong to slap on a 30 sharpness filter? Does it spoil the MPEG encoding to DVD or something? It certainly looks better on the timeline.

tom.
sounds like you are placing the downcoverted file in a HD project

if you place it in SD project, you won't need to add sharpness
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Old July 18th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #5
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

I'll second using TMPGenc.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 01:53 AM   #6
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

Another vote here for TMPGEnc

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Old July 19th, 2011, 02:59 AM   #7
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

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sounds like you are placing the downcoverted file in a HD project, if you place it in SD project, you won't need to add sharpness
Not so Anton - I open a new 720 x 576 Edius project for the downconverted files and I'd say that it certainly looks better with a 25 - 30 sharpening filter. It does tend to up the jaggies somewhat though sharpening can be reduced for such scenes if necessary. What do you mean by 'won't need'?
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Old July 19th, 2011, 03:32 AM   #8
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

Ron, when you say, 'I find TMPGenc does a better job of downconverting than the lengthy VDub process.' can you put your finger on what it is that it does better? I find VD removes all the nasty moiré banding and stair-stepping, and it doesn't make it any less sharp than shooting SD in the first place. It's just the ruthless A/B Hi-def / Std def test that makes it look so soft.

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Old July 19th, 2011, 12:55 PM   #9
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

I have to wonder if there is a difference with NTSC and PAL. However when I tried the VDUB approach that I assume you are using it meant exporting from Edius , downconverting in VDub bringing back into Edius DVD project settings and then for me I had to add at least 25 sharpening and plus 5 chroma to get a marginally acceptable image. It was slightly smoother ( or lacked sparkle in my eyes, my wife called it dull !!) from the TMPGenc output. When viewed on an upscaling DVD player the TMPGenc image is vastly superior likely the VDUB image has less fine detail for the upscaling algorithms to use which accounts for the dull image my wife and I see and why lots of sharpening has to be added. I see NO difference in any artifacts and to me TMPGenc has a lot more sparkle and contrast to the image. Apart from that it is a much simpler process. Export a HQ fine file from Edius, downconvert and encode for SD DVD in one process in TMPGenc then author and burn DVD.

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Old July 19th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #10
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

I use the same process as Ron after experimenting for hours using other encoders and down scaling processes. "Export a HQ fine file from Edius, down convert and encode for SD DVD in one process in TMPGenc then author and burn DVD." You can pretty much use the stock template settings for DVD.
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Last edited by Mark Williams; July 19th, 2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Old July 19th, 2011, 09:03 PM   #11
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

Fine tuning, I would uncheck the maintain aspect box in the resize filter if you are starting with a square pixel file like 1920x1080, choose 10 bit processing and fastest motion searching. But just using the defaults will give good results with almost no effort.

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Old July 20th, 2011, 04:37 PM   #12
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

After acquiring a virus in an editing machine that had access to the internet, I guess I am rather paranoid about my editing suite having a connection to the Internet. According to a previous post by Anton he has said there is no reason to worry if you only allow connection for updates and the like. I am sure that I am over reacting to the fear of a virus but one huge bad experience has made a lasting impression on me due to the loss of time and missing the deadline for delivering my program to 4 TV stations.

However, we have 6 machines that are networked and I shudder to think the lost time I would have if they were infected. More than likely with my luck it would be in the middle of a long project with a deadline.

So how do those of you handle the need for constant connection to the internet with TEMPgenc? I could set up a separate computer just for authoring and conversion. It would require dumping my exported file from Edius to an external drive then connecting it to my internet computer for conversion and burning?

I keep hoping that someday we will have so many requests for HD projects that SD DVD will be a thing of the past.
I can dream can't I?

Thanks guys for all you input on this forum....

Ronnie Martin
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Old July 20th, 2011, 05:56 PM   #13
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

You don't have to be connected to the internet to get a virus. A file from a USB drive etc can load a virus. Most however come from attachments to emails and going to rather dubious WEB sites. I have one PC just for finances , one for normal email and browsing on forums like this etc and my editing PC. They go through a hardware router/firewall to the cable modem. I only use the one PC for email and browsing has lots of virus protection and firewall from WIN7. Same for the Finance PC. Editing PC has nothing. Only time the editing PC goes to the internet is for updates to programs or Windows update. Been this way for years with no problems. Just don't use the editing PC's for browsing or email and make backups frequently. Acronis will do a continuous backup if you want so recovery can be very quick.


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Old July 20th, 2011, 07:43 PM   #14
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

I am very happy with my T5 results, no sharpness filter needed in my PAL case
TmpgEnc Video Mastering Works 5 Tutorial for downscaling EDIUS HD to SD
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Old July 31st, 2011, 07:15 AM   #15
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Re: How much sharpness can I add in post?

TMPGEnc Mastering yields the best the best downconversion results I have ever seen. It really is an eye opener. The Lanczos filter certainly has a lot to do with the quality. Antons link in the post above, and Mastering Works are all you need for the best quality HD to SD you have ever seen. I recommend all to download the demo and burn a few DVDs. You will be very pleasantly suprised
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