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HD and UHD ( 2K+ ) Digital Cinema
Various topics: HD, UHD (2K / 4K) Digital Cinema acquisition to distribution.


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Old September 18th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #1
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Panavision Genesis

Where could you buy one of these cameras? Any legitimate stores online? What's the price range? $100k? $200k? Obviously with Panavision lenses that you'd need to use (even without), it'd be prohibitively expensive for most indies.

Has anyone here ever used one? Good, bad experiences?

Thanks.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #2
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I thought the Genesis was rental only. And the price I've seen tossed around was $500k...
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Old September 18th, 2008, 08:22 PM   #3
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Rental only? Might be worth it if there were rental places for it in the midwest.

I wish Panasonic would come out with a variable framerate 1080p P2 camera. Seems like that has to be the next step.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 08:47 PM   #4
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Hi Will:

Looky what you find (amongst other things) when you search here under "Panavision Genesis":

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-c...is-thread.html

Not to be too flippant but of course we promote "search before you post" here at DVI.

I've now done three Genesis studio features and a TV series with the camera. It delivers a beautiful image but is quite gear-intensive and expensive to rent, not really suited for indies. Right now you can rent a 35mm Panavision package for probably half the price of a Genesis, which says a lot.

The F35 will be quite similar to the Genesis in a number of ways, and that will be available for purchase (unlike all Panavision gear). It will also have a PL mount which makes it compatible with many more lenses. The processing will be somewhat different but the cameras share a lot of similar functionality.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #5
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I know how to perform a search, and I did so prior to asking these questions. You might notice the answers to the questions I asked do not exist in the thread you linked to. There is no mention of cost, how to purchase it, etc. There is an interesting story about someone working with it, but I'm sure other users have had experience as well especially since that thread is 2 years old so I don't think it'll destroy the world to create a new one particularly when new questions are posed.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 06:58 PM   #6
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So Will, you are saying that you read my thread (which I may have indeed started 2 years ago but updated only three months ago) as well as the couple of others including the Panavision employee who shot with the Genesis on his Heinz spec, and still chose to ask "Has anyone here ever used one?". Perhaps you can see why I assumed you hadn't read those.

No, it doesn't destroy the world when new threads are created, but it does create more work for the moderators who have to prune and combine threads to consolidate information. That is why we suggest searching first, and after one has made that suggestion over and over again it can make one a little terse or flippant (as I have already made apologies for even as I was doing it).

Here's some more discussion on the purchase price question:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/red-digit...tml#post589590
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Old October 1st, 2008, 01:57 PM   #7
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Panavision do not sell cameras (or kit), full stop. When they're done with 'em, they smash them up.

A Genesis costs 2,000 UK pounds ($4,000 approx) to rent per day, you can find the prices on the panavision online store. Of interest, although most Panavision cameras are rented out on a 4-for-7 deal (one week's rental costs the same as four days) the Genesis is not. It cost the company over $42,000,000 to get to the stage of having a working camera.

Sony's "Genesis" - the F35, which is probably closer to Genesis than Panavision would like you to think, costs around $250,000+ (estimated price based on a UK supplier I know).

I trust these facts to be correct, they come from some reliable industry sources.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 09:44 AM   #8
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I hear DPs, camera ops, Steadicam ops and others call it the "Genocide" because it's so heavy.

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Old October 3rd, 2008, 11:30 AM   #9
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Definitely Steadicam operators and camera operators unfortunate enough to have to handhold it for lengths of time (I've done both)--in its original form with the HDCAM-SR deck onboard, it's a bruiser, heavier than any production 35mm camera intended for those purposes. However there has always been the possibility of remoting the 15 lb deck onto a backpack worn by an unhappy assistant or grip, which requires an additional sizeable processor unit ("toaster") and battery source which makes it pretty formidable. Two fat-guage HD-SDI cables connect the two. I've always operated Steadicam this way and although the cables are a definite annoyance, it's better than the alternative which can top the entire rig out 95 lbs or so. Plus with the deck onboard it draws 10-13 amps when running, which can tax any battery system particularly the ones we fly on the rig, so you have to use larger brick batteries adding more weight to the system. Hence, Genocide!

Earlier this year I worked on the first feature to use the hard drive mags with the camera, which use half the power and weigh half as much. They store 22 minutes of footage at 4:2:2 and 44 minutes at 4:4:4. They are compatible with the F23/35, but because they are Panavision branded it would be difficult to rent as a package (Panavision doesn't rent those cameras as they compete with the Genesis). With this solution I can do 1-piece Steadicam and the weight is comparable to a Panavision XL. Since it is too expensive for most productions to rent more than a handful of the digital mags, the idea is to download them in real time to the HDCAM tape deck on the truck, which requires supervision to make sure it is a clean transfer. This way a tape master is created. Seems a little backwards, huh...but that's the reality of solid state data storage.

As far as DP's calling it the "Genocide", they don't have to shlep it around and can enjoy the pretty pictures it makes from a comfortable sitting position, so not many are likely to use this moniker! I've yet to work with a DP who doesn't like using it more than any other HD camera. It does make great images and will cut nicely against 35mm footage.
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 11:35 AM   #10
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Then I take it back and say ACs and Steadicam ops! (And camera ops.) An assistant wearing a backpack with a drive? Sounds like the 1970s with two or three people lugging around old 3/4" video cameras.

The Genesis is nice.

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Old October 4th, 2008, 11:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert View Post
I worked on the first feature to use the hard drive mags with the camera, which use half the power and weigh half as much. They store 22 minutes of footage at 4:2:2 and 44 minutes at 4:4:4.
Think you got the numbers crossed there Charles.

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Old October 4th, 2008, 02:49 PM   #12
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Sure did George, good catch. I was on my way out to work and didn't check my post. Of course the 4:4:4 mode delivers less recording time.

Below is a still from an old Genesis job with the camera in two-piece mode, and grip carrying the backpack and cable wrangling.

Old school style, indeed. Having shot plenty of two-piece 3/4" back in the day, it's certainly reminiscent of that (although the backpack weighs a lot more than the old--what was it? BVU-110?)
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Old February 20th, 2009, 01:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Charles Papert View Post
Sure did George, good catch. I was on my way out to work and didn't check my post. Of course the 4:4:4 mode delivers less recording time.

Below is a still from an old Genesis job with the camera in two-piece mode, and grip carrying the backpack and cable wrangling.

Old school style, indeed. Having shot plenty of two-piece 3/4" back in the day, it's certainly reminiscent of that (although the backpack weighs a lot more than the old--what was it? BVU-110?)
When I first read this thread I envisioned the Genesis as large as the guy in the blue shirt smoking the stogie. Thanks for posting the pic as it clears up some misconceptions. Still, it looks like no slack feat to film with that cam as a human tripod/dolly/crane.
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Old February 20th, 2009, 03:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Will Hanlon View Post
I know how to perform a search, and I did so prior to asking these questions. You might notice the answers to the questions I asked do not exist in the thread you linked to. There is no mention of cost, how to purchase it, etc. There is an interesting story about someone working with it, but I'm sure other users have had experience as well especially since that thread is 2 years old so I don't think it'll destroy the world to create a new one particularly when new questions are posed.
I think you've taken this a little personally Will, Charles sounded like he was just reminding you and others that a search is a good policy, it didn't sound like an attack to me.
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