Goodbye PC.. Hello Apple? - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

High Definition Video Editing Solutions
For all HD formats including HDV, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD and others.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 29th, 2007, 01:54 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
Go to the nearest apple store and play with a mac for free. Decide for yourself with your hands on the mouse and keyboard. We all have strong opinions one way or the other. You can also check their schedules to see if they have any free classes scheduled in FCP to see if you like the workflow.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 09:07 AM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wyomissing, PA
Posts: 1,141
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by John B. Nelson View Post
... The only software I really invested for this system is Premeire Elements.

....I'm still leaning more towards Apple though, there OS is more stable than Windows and they seem to run faster than the PC. FCP looks pretty impressive from what I can see of it and is spoken very highly by the professional community.

-John
Then I'd switch based on your described needs. If you just want an edit only workstation and a stable OS, then that will do. As suggested earlier, go an apple store and demo. Be sure that an FCP only solution will provide for YOUR requirements. That is, if there are missing features not yet implemented in FCP, do you even need those features anyway?
__________________
Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it.
-------------------------------------------
Peter Ferling is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #18
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole McDonald View Post
Go to the nearest apple store and play with a mac for free. Decide for yourself with your hands on the mouse and keyboard. We all have strong opinions one way or the other. You can also check their schedules to see if they have any free classes scheduled in FCP to see if you like the workflow.
Best advice I've seen yet. Much like we preach around here on camera questions. The best one is the one that 'feels' right to you personally. I have to admit, as much as I like FCP and its power, I was really comfortable with Premiere Pro 2.0 the first time I sat down with it. It seems to have some limitations in areas, but strong features that FCP doesn't have in other areas.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 05:13 PM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA
Posts: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by John B. Nelson View Post
This means I would have to purchase Windows XP somewhere, reformat my HD and install it.
No!!!! You are allowed to "downgrade" to XP Pro and get a license key at no charge as long as you don't use Vista (Business or Ultimate for some reason).

See:

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...rencesheet.pdf

and get on to whomever sold you the PC. You may need to find someone with the XP Pro CD-ROM according to the above document. The vendor may only provide the license key.
John Miller is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #20
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
I'll steer clear of the Mac vs PC debate but just a few thoughts:

- No point in complaining about Vista compatibility...you can't swing a dead cat in an online forum without hitting at least three people who've said 10 times if they said once that historically any new OS has had its growing pains, and there are enough Vista issues at present to deter most of us from using it with any editing software. Personally, I was all primed and ready with my new Quad Core and 4GB of RAM for Vista's release...as reports and reviews rolled in, I changed my tune and am still waiting for it to be ready for prime time (as I did when XP first came out).

- There are exceptions but most major software vendors do NOT provide tech support for free trials. Sorry, "pathetic" or not, that's the way of the world.

- Comparing a low-cost consumer-level software package like Elements to FCP Studio is a bit unrealistic. As has been suggested, if Vista is giving you fits, just put XP on the machine. No biggie. Even getting XP and then upgrading to CS3 is a lot cheaper and easier than going out and completely changing platforms. Or, be verrrrrrry patient and Vista SP1 will be out sometime next calendar year!
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 07:19 PM   #21
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bradford, PA
Posts: 67
Thanks again for all your replies.

Getting my hands on an Apple to try out would be nice, however there are no Apple stores in my area.. I'm not even sure if there is one in Erie (about an hour from me) but that really isn't an issue with me. I know I would not have any problems adapting to a new OS.. it's not much different from Windows anyway.

As for downgrading to XP, I'm not really sure about that either. The drivers that came on the CD are for Vista so I would have locate XP drivers for my firewire and wireless adapter among other things. That could be a disasterous task indeed.

I appreciate everyones opinions, but I guess what I was looking for is some feedback from Apple/FCP users that maybe could enlighten me with their experiences. Are they happy with its performance... what are some of the drawbacks if any. The fact that FCP does not support HD-DVD or Blu-Ray isn't an issue with me at this time for the same reason Jerrod stated, and I tell my clients the same thing. As a matter of fact, I know no one that even owns an HD DVD player including myself. I got screwed back when Beta and VHS were battling for the market so I learned my lesson then. So for now my clients are happy when I can give them high quality SD on DVD. I always archive my projects so that when HD DVD becomes more realistic, I will have it if any of my clients want their video output to HD.

-John
John B. Nelson is offline  
Old August 29th, 2007, 07:37 PM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
My experience with mac/fcp is good. I had some issues editing one piece due to the fact that I captured it using iMovie for ease of use, but that does icky things when pulled into FCP, now that I capture directly to FCP, I have no issues there. I've used premeire historically and diva videoshop before that. The workflow is about the same in all three...I've had to make very minor mental adjustments to switch from one to the other.

I cheat in having no problems on my mac as I'm a certified apple tech, so big problems are very minor to me at home. I've spoken to people who are very frustrated with their macs...and others who love them...same with windows. It's very much a personal thing. This is why I always recommend getting your hands on one to find out for yourself:

http://www.apple.com/retail/
on the right side of the page is a pulldown with states, followed by a pulldown with cities to locate them.

Quote:
Apple Store
5508 Walnut St, Pittsburgh, PA
(412) 683-1186

Apple Store
61 Saint James Pl, Ardmore, PA
(610) 726-9400

Apple Store R147
300 S Hills Vlg, Pittsburgh, PA
(412) 833-1840

Apple Inc
160 N Gulph Rd, King of Prussia, PA
(610) 265-2321
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 01:46 AM   #23
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 232
We are all beta testers

Few years ago I bought my first computer, taught myself how to use it and I have minimal problems with the whole HD scene. But every piece of software I've ever used NEVER worked as advertised, sept Screen Ruler...lol I have a saying when I turn on my machine to start work, "nothing works". It's true no matter Ford or Chevy, computers don't work. Knowing that makes any successful project that much sweeter.

What cracks me up is 2 pages of posts about this. Tons of great advice, but this guy should learn how to use a computer. Finding and installing (and uninstalling) drivers is the life blood of video editing. To do this stuff you really need to be able to trouble shoot your system, and then know where to find help and the right questions to ask. I don't mean to offend, but some of the posts are telling.

My best advice is to check out cineform for editing HD (PC and Mac). Those guys almost make me believe that computers can work, even though I know they don't.

Cheers,
Jon
Jon Jaschob is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 05:18 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Jaschob View Post
What cracks me up is 2 pages of posts about this. Tons of great advice, but this guy should learn how to use a computer. Finding and installing (and uninstalling) drivers is the life blood of video editing. To do this stuff you really need to be able to trouble shoot your system, and then know where to find help and the right questions to ask. I don't mean to offend, but some of the posts are telling.
Hi John,
I'm editing for a while, and I haven't got any unsatisfied customer.
So the editing job I'm doing must be okay.
And I don't know so much about drivers and very technical computer stuff either...
Many professional editors don't know either.
They aren't computer specialists, they are EDITORS.
Knowing much about computers undoubtly eases the task if you have problems, and I'm learning more about computers, but if something will fail, I'll be on this board too for asking advice, if I don't know what it is.
We are all here to help each other. Everybody has to learn, right?

Best regards,
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 01:05 PM   #25
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
I can pound a nail into wood, I don't know the metallurgy that goes into making a hammer.
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 02:36 PM   #26
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rochester, NY usa
Posts: 75
Xp

You won't find a winning argument in the MAC vs PC editing war. They both work and each one has more market share in certain market segments.

What you will find the majority of people agreeing on is if you choose to edit in the PC world, you will find smoother running systems for the next 18-24 months running XP. It's a simple decision. Makes your life a whole lot easier. Most editors have a stable of 2-6 programs they run and they all must run on the OS to satisfy the operator. The older OS always wins for the 2-3 transition period. XP is very stable so it shouldn't be any kind of handicap.

One can generally find the drivers for XP on the manufacturers web site, but check this out first before buying a new computer. If you build your own, just buy XP and the drivers aren't an issue....
Jim Froom is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 03:37 PM   #27
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bradford, PA
Posts: 67
Mathieu & Cole: Excellent points! I couldn't have said it better myself. It's people like you that make this forum great.

-John
John B. Nelson is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #28
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,414
Well I'm going to toss in the monkey wrench....

Here's a consideration that you should pay great attention too....

Its HDDVD and Blu-ray compatability.....

This issue is going to rear its ugly head in the near future and most likely
is going to make a lot of folks mad....

What am I talking about?

Its called HDCP and your going to hear it more and more in the very near future....

If you plan on adding a HDDVD or Blu-ray reader/writer to your new wiz bang computer, your computer will author and burn these disks all day....

But guess what... your computer wont be able to play those disks back...

why, because the computer is not HDCP compliant...

To find out more and to test any existing system go to the cyberlink site and download the cyberlink BD/HD Adviser.... then read up on the issue...

Don't get me wrong.... you can configure a computer that will burn and play back HDDVD or Blu-ray, its just that you need to choose the correct components or you may be in for a suprise when you finally add the burner
and find out you can't play them on your computer....

I only mention this because sooner or later we all are going to want to add the capability to burn HD material....

I'm finding out the hard way already....

When I run the cyberlink adviser it tells me my monitor is not HDCP compliant and all of the Blu-ray software players refuse to play back either a home burnt blu-ray or a comercial blu-ray... but I can burn it and they play great in my PS3....

So, if your building a new computer and you plan on playing back HD disks
on it... pay attention and make sure that all of the components, video card, display are compliant and you will be OK going forward

Here's more info... http://www.behardware.com/articles/6...nightmare.html

Last edited by Ray Bell; August 30th, 2007 at 08:12 PM.
Ray Bell is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 07:16 PM   #29
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bradford, PA
Posts: 67
Would that be a really big deal though? If you have an HD DVD or Blu Ray DVD player connected to a HD TV you can view it on that. Me personally, I would rather view something I made on a bigger screen anyway, it would be easier to see any flaws.

-John
John B. Nelson is offline  
Old August 30th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #30
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA
Posts: 1,675
feels about the same as all the other editors, slight differences in workflow, but 90% of editing is setting an in and out point on a clip, then adding it to a timeline...perhaps a crossfade or two.

After that is where the differences come in...and they are all relatively easy to overcome. I've used a dozen OS's in the past 30 years and OSX feels the most natural to me...I was pretty happy with dos as well, but so far as GUI's go, the Mac feels the most polished to me.

FCP doesn't feel like it fits with the OSX experience (most likely because it was acquired from macromedia)...but it should feel familiar to anyone who's used any other NLE's up to the point where apple bought FCP from them. The whole which editor is superior argument seems pointless to me. They all do the same job in just about the same way (same as the computer - data from storage to screen based on user input). It all boils down to personal preference...find examples of all of the alternatives and sit down and work with them. There should be someone who'll let you do that in your area representing the vegas, avid, premiere and FCP camps. Use the one that makes you feel more productive.

This is from the FCP camp, chiming in and signing off ;)
__________________
Web Youtube Facebook
Cole McDonald is offline  
Closed Thread

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:12 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network