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Old August 28th, 2007, 04:08 PM   #1
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Goodbye PC.. Hello Apple?

I have my A1 for about 6 months now and I have no complaints about the camera at all. With the help of this forum and a lot of trial and error on my part, I have learned to produce some really good quality video. I still have a lot to learn yet but I'm really happy with the progress I made so far.

My only problem I have is editing. For those who have read some of my previous posts you will know I was having problems with Windows Vista. These problems are still on going and I see no light at the end of this dark tunnel. I've been using programs like Ulead's Videostudio and Adobe's Premiere Elements and have not been happy with the way they run. I tried to download and install the trial version of Premiere Pro the other day and I got an error when trying to install it. I contacted Adobe about that and there response was they don't support Trial versions. That's pathetic.

Well needless to say I'm pretty disgusted with the PC and Vista and all the idiots who make the software for it, so I am seriously considering selling my workstation and going Apple. I have done a little research on this and from what I read Apple has come long way over the years. In a lot of instances they seem to be more superior than the PC, especially when it comes to computer power which is essesential for HD editing.

Another thing that is attracting me to the MAC is Final Cut Studio 2. Again, from what I read this appears to be the ultimate video editing system available. It is used by many professional videographers and cinematographers. And the $1299 price tag for the software isn't bad either, as long as it does what it claims to do anyway.

So with that in mind, could I get some feedback on those who use the MAC and FCS 2 and tell me what they think about it?

If I go the Apple route I will probally be purchasing a MacBook Pro and FCS 2. I will still keep my Windows XP workstation for my photography and use the Mac for my video.

Thanks. :)

-John
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Old August 28th, 2007, 04:22 PM   #2
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Why not revert to Windows XP Pro?

The "idiots" who write the software for Vista aren't idiots. They have written excellent software for XP. Microsoft have changed some fundamental things in Vista than can "break" software designed for XP. Most (large) software houses can't update their software in a short cycle. Typically, they will wait until the next major version to roll out "fixes" for new Vista behaviors and requirements. Note, this isn't just a feature of new versions of Windows - new versions of Mac OS lead to headaches for some well established and respected software.

If you read around on this forum, you'll see that the general consensus is to use XP for editing and not Vista.

I can't comment about switching to Apple. You don't have anything to lose by trying XP. If you bought your computer with Vista preloaded, you are entitled to get XP Pro free of charge (before Jan 2008).
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Old August 28th, 2007, 05:00 PM   #3
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Hi John,

Apple and FCS is undoubtly a very good editing combo, but before dramatically chancing, I would do as John (the other John) said: run Windows XP. Vista has many bugs in it, and many people here advice NOT to switch to Vista yet, especially not for editing, because it creates many bugs.
I'm using Premiere Pro and I'm happy with it (although I'm also looking at a switch to Mac, but for different reasons).
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Old August 28th, 2007, 05:14 PM   #4
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I agree, go with XP Pro.
Whatever can Vista supply for video editing that XP Pro can't?
Vista might have some advanced graphics features (to handle all those pretty things) but is that valid for video editing that isn't rendering polygons? Perhaps, I don't know.

"I don't need a fancy 3D ash-tray in my car - I need a working engine..."
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Old August 28th, 2007, 05:29 PM   #5
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Thanks John and Mathieu for your response.

John: I'm not going to get into a debate on the fundementals of software design with you, this isn't the place for that, but I do respect your opinion and it would be fun to debate that issue with you. I will say this though, if you claim your software is Vista compatiable, then make sure your software works well with it before you release it. Unfortantly that is not the case with Ulead and Adobe who do claim that their products are Vista compatiable.

As for XP, I agree with you 100%, it is a good solid OS and I have had no big issues with it. I have worked with SD video and XP for years with no problems. But because I made the transistion to HD, I had to upgrade my computer system to a faster machine. Dell sells their computers now with Vista. That was not my choice. If I could have gotten my laptop with XP installed instead, I would have. I told Dell numerous times I was not happy with Vista and wanted them to put XP on it instead but they said they can not do that.

Even if I do install XP on my laptop, I still have a software issue to consider. Like I said before, I'm really not happy with Ulead and Adobe regardless of what OS they run on. Ulead's latest version still doesnt support 24p and Adobe Premiere Elements DVD output leaves little to be desired. The pro version is a lot more money and I still haven't been able to try out their trial version to see how good it realy is, so that is why I'm considering going MAC and FCS.

The bottom line is that if I'm going to invest that kind of money into an editing system, whether it be PPRO or FCS, I want it to be able to grow with me as my needs become more demanding.

-John
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Old August 28th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John B. Nelson View Post
I will say this though, if you claim your software is Vista compatiable, then make sure your software works well with it before you release it.
Believe me, we have gone to great pains (and it has been very painful) to identify the Vista "gotchas". In a number of cases, we have to make the product "Vista aware" so it behaves one way on Vista and another on XP....no Vista complaints yet from users since we launched in February.

Quote:
I told Dell numerous times I was not happy with Vista and wanted them to put XP on it instead but they said they can not do that.
Dual boot to XP and Vista but don't use the Vista . Licensing for Vista permits you to use XP (though, technically, not at the same time as Vista). Or wipe Vista and install XP.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 06:28 PM   #7
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I know Vista users who have premiere cs3 and say it runs solid, problem is that almost every pc nowaydays is equiped with vista, Dell does offer pc's with xp but only for business users in Europe. What I also don't understand that they put 500gig (2x250) in a raid as the c-drive with no possibility to add an extra drive (Bit off topic but since we are complaining about dell :))
I run premiere cs3 on windows xp home and it's very stable as well, the only problem I had was when I first used it and opened an older project made in version 1.5 which caused several crashes. Later making a new project it has not failed me since.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John B. Nelson View Post
Another thing that is attracting me to the MAC is Final Cut Studio 2. Again, from what I read this appears to be the ultimate video editing system available.
Apple has a knack for writing good software and Final Cut is definitely popular, but it does have a few shortcomings. Among other things, note that it doesn't currently support either Blu-ray or HD-DVD authoring, except to burn short HD-DVD projects onto red-laser DVDs. Not much good to have a great HD editing program if you can't burn an HD disc for customers -- you'd need another program like Adobe CS3 for that until Apple gets its act together.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #9
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Im using DELL system Intel Core 2 with Windows XP Pro SP2. Running just Adobe CS 3 Production Suite. Not a problem so far edit both DV, SD & HDV. Windows Vista still not very good running CS3. MAC OS X intel can do the job as Kevin say: Among other things, note that it doesn't currently support either Blu-ray or HD-DVD authoring
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Old August 28th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #10
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Hmm, well that's interesting to know. Thanks for bringing that up.

I received and email from Adobe today telling me that because I'm a registered PElements owner, I can upgrade to the pro version for $299. That's a pretty good deal I think.

If I am going to go this route and stay with the PC, I would definitly want to trash Vista and install XP on my laptop. This means I would have to purchase Windows XP somewhere, reformat my HD and install it.

I do not want to go off topic or stray away from the real purpose of this forum, but if someone can direct me to some info on how to go about doing this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your help. I love this forum! :)

-John
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Old August 28th, 2007, 08:30 PM   #11
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John, you also have the option of buying the Mac and using Boot Camp, Parallels, or VMWare, to run WinXP or Vista by partitioning your drive for it. That would protect your investment in PC software while offering the benefits of the Mac and FCP.

Of course you'd have to buy a copy of Windows or Vista off the shelf to do this.

-gb-
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Old August 28th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #12
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Consider the complete laundry list of having to switch platforms. What other software and process' do you have already vested in windows that will have to be replaced in the Mac. (I have both). However, I am heavily vested in XP (in both time and money) and have no desire to switch to vista just to have something that looks like a Mac, (but doesn't perform like one :)

In a business sense you want to stay away from bleeding edge and novel technology. Stability is the answer. I stuck it out with Win 2000 pro a few years until XP was in SP1. I shall do the same with Vista, if ever, and only when my vendors release upgrades that make the switch nothing more than that.

Currently though, with CS3, is not quite well with XP either. I upgraded between projects and now I may have to go back a few steps. I certainly do not want to add to my frustrations with a half-patched OS either. I have no time for beta testing. My biggest fear is that the demand/draw for getting Vista compatible may actually detract from getting CS3 100% right with XP and it's going to be a long road.
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Old August 28th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #13
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Peter, I have 2 workstations (computer systems) that I use. The older one is a Dell desktop with Windows XP. I use this system for my photography and SD video. My second system, the newer one is a Dell Inspiron (laptop) which I purchased after getting the A1. The sole purpose of this system is just for my HD video. The only software I really invested for this system is Premeire Elements. The other software I have on it I also use on the XP desktop, so in reality I am not losing anything as far as software goes.

I find myself in need of a more sophisticated editing system. From what I see that is available for the PC is not very good. I'm getting mixed responses pertaining to PPPro and FCP. I have a lot of thinking to do before I make up my mind on what to do.

I'm still leaning more towards Apple though, there OS is more stable than Windows and they seem to run faster than the PC. FCP looks pretty impressive from what I can see of it and is spoken very highly by the professional community.

-John
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Old August 28th, 2007, 10:10 PM   #14
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Presently I'm using two Dell Precision 390's... quad and all the jazz they offer for that setup including Blu-ray editing....

Dell let me have both, XP and Vista software disks... they let me decide what OS to load...

So I made the decision to load one with Vista and one with XP pro ... this was before Adobe released the CS suites... the machine loaded with Vista was pissing me off daily on that work station to the point that I wouldn't use that station and just worked off of my other 390 with XP and Premier 1.5

After Adobe released the CS suite, I put it on the Vista machine to see what would happen as I didn't want to mess with the XP setup on the other machine. If it didn't work I wasn't going to pay Adobe for the upgrade...

Well the CS suite worked fine on the Vista Machine....

So I decided to double load the XP machine with the old Adobe suite and the new CS suite...

So far on both setups, Vista and XP I've had very few issues... and Cineform just fixed the AE issues this week...

It may take me until Xmas to get confidence with the Vista machine before I decide to flip the XP machine to Vista and unload the older Adobe products... but its getting there....

I'd stay with XP as that machine is very stable, but I got 4GB memory on these machines that I'd like to see used with Vista....

I couldn't even think about bouncing between a Mac and two PC's, one with XP and one with Vista... :-0
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Old August 29th, 2007, 12:52 AM   #15
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I know PCs may have it's ups, but I say if you go with a Mac, then you won't be disappointed. Sure, Final Cut may not have HD-DVD or Blu-Ray authoring, but until the format debate is over I wouldn't worry about that so much. And if you don't want Final Cut (for some odd reason) then you could always get Premiere Pro CS3 for Apple.

I honestly think it'd be worth it to switch over. But that's just my opinion.
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