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Old May 23rd, 2008, 11:14 PM   #1
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Best workflow for HDV

So I read all of the talk about not editing in HDV.

What is the best workflow to capture and edit in then? I was not seeing a lot of solutions for this.

I am a recent conversion to HDV - and I am pulling my hair out just trying to capture. We are doing 2 and 3 hour events, aquired in HDV. I need to edit 3 angles.

Is using FCP and converting to Apple Pro Res???

My other option and preference is premiere.

Thanks for any advice and thoughts.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #2
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I'd also like to hear some opinions on this. When I shoot in HDV I always immediately convert to ProRes - I got a little nervous when I heard talk about not cutting on I frames and the consequences resulting from it.

So is it ever a good idea to work with HDV material?
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Old May 24th, 2008, 01:47 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Nate Haustein View Post
So is it ever a good idea to work with HDV material?
Sure, if you have Cineform. No worries.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 10:58 AM   #4
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You really have 2 choices;

1. Import the HDV native files. Then edit in HDV OR change to a ProRes (or whatever codec you prefer) sequence and and render out the sequence when completed.

2. Import via an AJA, Blackmagic, etc card in ProRes or codec of your choice.

HDV files are smaller than ProRes files. The workflow you choose depends upon your storage, cpu speed and what works best for your final product. I prefer the ProRes files. In the end it's quicker (less renders) but I also have plenty of storage.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #5
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I know there were problems in the beginning with HDV editing, but now it's just as easy as DV editing. I use premiere pro cs3 to capture and edit on an old 2.8G pentium dual core.

Premiere needs some time to index and conform the files, but after that you can edit right away.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rick L. Allen View Post
You really have 2 choices;

1. Import the HDV native files. Then edit in HDV OR change to a ProRes (or whatever codec you prefer) sequence and and render out the sequence when completed.

2. Import via an AJA, Blackmagic, etc card in ProRes or codec of your choice.

HDV files are smaller than ProRes files. The workflow you choose depends upon your storage, cpu speed and what works best for your final product. I prefer the ProRes files. In the end it's quicker (less renders) but I also have plenty of storage.
So with Black Magic, I can import component, and it still look good, like from my Sony FX1 - or do I need a HDMI deck.

Thanks.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #7
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George, once your footage is on tape, exporting via component or HDMI is not going to gain you much. It has already been compressed to tape.

However, if you go to a codec like pro res, it uses lighter compression, the files are bigger and your CPU doesn't have to work as hard to decode, so your timeline editing is quicker. Of course, the video file is bigger as well. Leaving it in 'native' HDV means higher compression, so your CPU has to work harder, and, as a rule, your timeline editing is slower. Your video files are smaller, however.

The other advantage to transcoding to some larger file sized codecs with say, 4:2:2 sampling is that you can push things like color correction harder without breaking up the image.

Personally, I would capture 5 minutes or so of footage from each of your three cameras in HDV native and also capture/convert to pro res. Do mini projects, mimic your normal editing and output process, and see what works for you. Make careful note of transcode times, what might be bearable with 5 min of footage, might be intolerable at 12x that time per actual hour of finished footage in a long form project.
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Old May 24th, 2008, 09:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dek Rypter View Post
I know there were problems in the beginning with HDV editing, but now it's just as easy as DV editing. I use premiere pro cs3 to capture and edit on an old 2.8G pentium dual core.

Premiere needs some time to index and conform the files, but after that you can edit right away.
Same thing with Vegas. In the beginning it wasn't practical, but now it works wonderfully well (for me at least). Any parts of the video that aren't changed (with filters or color correction) smart render into an m2t master extremely quickly with no generation loss.
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Old May 25th, 2008, 08:17 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by George Sickler View Post
So with Black Magic, I can import component, and it still look good, like from my Sony FX1 - or do I need a HDMI deck.
Again, this is your choice and depends upon your video card, cpu and the deck you get. HDMI & HD-SDI will have the highest quality signal, component is the next best picture quality for importing.

I'd also heartily agree with Eric. Do a test. There is no one correct answer with so many variables based on hardware, budget and time.
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Old May 25th, 2008, 11:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Eric Lagerlof View Post
George, once your footage is on tape, exporting via component or HDMI is not going to gain you much. It has already been compressed to tape.

However, if you go to a codec like pro res, it uses lighter compression, the files are bigger and your CPU doesn't have to work as hard to decode, so your timeline editing is quicker. Of course, the video file is bigger as well. Leaving it in 'native' HDV means higher compression, so your CPU has to work harder, and, as a rule, your timeline editing is slower. Your video files are smaller, however.

The other advantage to transcoding to some larger file sized codecs with say, 4:2:2 sampling is that you can push things like color correction harder without breaking up the image.

Personally, I would capture 5 minutes or so of footage from each of your three cameras in HDV native and also capture/convert to pro res. Do mini projects, mimic your normal editing and output process, and see what works for you. Make careful note of transcode times, what might be bearable with 5 min of footage, might be intolerable at 12x that time per actual hour of finished footage in a long form project.
Thanks.

I have a MAC PRO with dual quad core 3ghz and 9gigs of ram.

I do have FCP and CS3. I am well versed in CS3. I have not taken the time to learn FCP yet.

I have a Z7u, EX1, and an FX1. I capture to HDV on the EX1 for our long events to the Z7U flash recorder (works awesome!)

Given that info, what would you do? I cannot stand the idea of spending $1000 for a piece of software, like cineform, just to edit HDV.

Capturing video with CS3 is very cumbersome, and has issues with the scene detect.

I captured with FCP and converted to pro res 422, and tried to edit in CS3, but Premiere does not like the apple pro res codec. ugh...

I was hearing a lot of talk, that editing native HDV is not a good solution.

Would intensity pro, make any difference what so ever in editing in CS3 HDV?

I really like editing xdcam ex footage in cs3. But I usually end up with HDV all the way with my projects.

If you were me, given the specs above, what would you do?

Thanks for your advice!
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Old May 28th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #11
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I had some success with Edius on my old dual core dell. I think I might need to switch to Edius. I really, really handled the HDV extremely well. I was able to convert the video to Canopus HQ and color correct with ease. It re samples to 4:2:2 in the Canopus HQ codec.

IS anyone running edius on their mac with a windows boot?

Thanks!

George
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Old May 28th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Sickler View Post
Thanks.

I have a MAC PRO with dual quad core 3ghz and 9gigs of ram.

I do have FCP and CS3. I am well versed in CS3. I have not taken the time to learn FCP yet.

I have a Z7u, EX1, and an FX1. I capture to HDV on the EX1 for our long events to the Z7U flash recorder (works awesome!)

Given that info, what would you do? I cannot stand the idea of spending $1000 for a piece of software, like cineform, just to edit HDV.

Capturing video with CS3 is very cumbersome, and has issues with the scene detect.

I captured with FCP and converted to pro res 422, and tried to edit in CS3, but Premiere does not like the apple pro res codec. ugh...

I was hearing a lot of talk, that editing native HDV is not a good solution.

Would intensity pro, make any difference what so ever in editing in CS3 HDV?

I really like editing xdcam ex footage in cs3. But I usually end up with HDV all the way with my projects.

If you were me, given the specs above, what would you do?

Thanks for your advice!

What I do for now, is edit in HDV and before my final export, change the render settings to pro res then re-render. Correct me if I'm wrong but all this GOP or I-frames and over compressed talk is from rendering HDV. I'm not saying it isn't better to capture or convert to pro res. I'm saying that I can't afford to and this method avoids the limitations of rendering HDV.
I use Final Cut so I can't help you with premier though. Maybe you could do something similar with another good codec, like "animation" or "uncompressed" for your final render?
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