MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE Questions

David Newman · August 13th, 2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

though I did notice they got grainy pretty fast once I started fooling around with colour correction.

You just hit on the main problem with MPEG editing. There is a lot of loss in the rendering stages if you attempt to remain in the MPEG domain during editing. Users decoding to HUFFYUV or the CineForm codec don't have this issue. If you intend to any layers or much color correction, it would be best in you convert out of such a lossy format. However, simple editing projects that only have cuts and dissolves don't suffer as badly, both in rendering time and quality losses. It really depends of the types of production your involved in.

Joe Russ · August 13th, 2003, 02:52 PM

actually, i still have the issue and im using huffy avis. the problem is in the footage captured by the camera itself...perhaps the mpeg compression. im using revision smoothkit, if you look at the chroma (color) alone, you can see there is large noise, 3 or 4 pixels across, it becomes very obvious after color correction. however, the luma noise is almost non-existant.

...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie.

Heath McKnight · August 13th, 2003, 02:58 PM

Did we jump too soon on this? I can't even edit and therefore can't make any money. Hmph...

heath

Joe Russ · August 13th, 2003, 05:31 PM

i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money

Heath McKnight · August 13th, 2003, 05:53 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money -->>>

Probably. But I'll be happy when we can edit efficiently!

heath

Michael Hyun · August 13th, 2003, 05:55 PM

Shasha,

I had over 120 clips in the bin. The total runtime was around 50 minutes in the bin. 80+ clips made it into the timeline with a total runtime of 12+ minutes.

It was a small project that took hardly anytime at all.

Anyways, after I finished, I decided to compare it with some DV and Hi8 projects I still had on my harddrive.

The difference between HD and DV is FAR greater than DV vs. Hi8. Back to back comparisons on my computer monitor confirmed this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Heath, suck it up. You cant doubt your purchase everytime someone finds another problem. Work around it. There is always a way.

Elvis Deane · August 13th, 2003, 06:00 PM

<<<--
...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>>

I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look.

Heath McKnight · August 13th, 2003, 06:09 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Elvis Deane : <<<--
...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>>

I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look. -->>>

Elvis,

All the HDV cameras (except Panasonic because I don't think they're on the the bandwagon officially or at all) coming out will be based on MPEG2. I don't have a link to where that press release is we all saw, but it may be at jvc.com so check there.

heath

Sasha Froyland · August 13th, 2003, 06:22 PM

Hello Michael Hyun,

Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file.

The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-)

I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues.

Sasha

Heath McKnight · August 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Sasha Froyland : Hello Michael Hyun,

Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file.

The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-)

I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues.

Sasha -->>>

All I can say is, and I think I speak for everyone here:

AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

heath

Joe Russ · August 13th, 2003, 07:51 PM

here is a sample from shooting i did today.

the aspect ratio is 2:1 and i shrunk them down to anamorphic dvd size (before horizontal squash) 854 x 427.

its big (340 k).

http://www.letterstoyou.com/noise00.jpg

they are in order from top to bottom
1) the original untouched frame
2) the frame after the levels have been adjusted
3) the red color in b&w (using revision smoothkit viewer)
4) the blue color in b&w (same)
note the large chroma noise
5) the final color timed picture. i used smooth kit guassian to soften the noise and then added a small amount of grain for a slightly more filmic look. its from a flashback, so thats the reason for the color grading.

hope this is somewhat useful.

August 13th, 2003, 02:58 PM	#33
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Did we jump too soon on this? I can't even edit and therefore can't make any money. Hmph... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 13th, 2003, 05:53 PM	#35
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money -->>> Probably. But I'll be happy when we can edit efficiently! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 13th, 2003, 06:00 PM	#37
Elvis Deane New Boot Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oakville, Ontario Posts: 15	<<<-- ...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>> I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look. __________________ Elvis Deane! www.astoundingadventures.com

August 13th, 2003, 06:09 PM	#38
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Elvis Deane : <<<-- ...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>> I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look. -->>> Elvis, All the HDV cameras (except Panasonic because I don't think they're on the the bandwagon officially or at all) coming out will be based on MPEG2. I don't have a link to where that press release is we all saw, but it may be at jvc.com so check there. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM	#40
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	<<<-- Originally posted by Sasha Froyland : Hello Michael Hyun, Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file. The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-) I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues. Sasha -->>> All I can say is, and I think I speak for everyone here: AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 13th, 2003, 02:52 PM	#32
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	actually, i still have the issue and im using huffy avis. the problem is in the footage captured by the camera itself...perhaps the mpeg compression. im using revision smoothkit, if you look at the chroma (color) alone, you can see there is large noise, 3 or 4 pixels across, it becomes very obvious after color correction. however, the luma noise is almost non-existant. ...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie.

August 13th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#34
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money

August 13th, 2003, 05:55 PM	#36
Michael Hyun Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 46	Shasha, I had over 120 clips in the bin. The total runtime was around 50 minutes in the bin. 80+ clips made it into the timeline with a total runtime of 12+ minutes. It was a small project that took hardly anytime at all. Anyways, after I finished, I decided to compare it with some DV and Hi8 projects I still had on my harddrive. The difference between HD and DV is FAR greater than DV vs. Hi8. Back to back comparisons on my computer monitor confirmed this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Heath, suck it up. You cant doubt your purchase everytime someone finds another problem. Work around it. There is always a way.

August 13th, 2003, 06:22 PM	#39
Sasha Froyland Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 67	Hello Michael Hyun, Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file. The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-) I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues. Sasha

August 13th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#41
Joe Russ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 99	here is a sample from shooting i did today. the aspect ratio is 2:1 and i shrunk them down to anamorphic dvd size (before horizontal squash) 854 x 427. its big (340 k). http://www.letterstoyou.com/noise00.jpg they are in order from top to bottom 1) the original untouched frame 2) the frame after the levels have been adjusted 3) the red color in b&w (using revision smoothkit viewer) 4) the blue color in b&w (same) note the large chroma noise 5) the final color timed picture. i used smooth kit guassian to soften the noise and then added a small amount of grain for a slightly more filmic look. its from a flashback, so thats the reason for the color grading. hope this is somewhat useful.