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Old March 3rd, 2009, 02:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barber View Post
Funny, that's not how I remember it. First, the "Power Mac" still exists, but has been rebranded as the "Mac Pro" with the switch from the PowerPC architecture to Intel. Also, one of the benefits of the switch from IBM's PowerPC to Intel was the lowering in cost. They have since become more price competitive, not less. They aren't as cheap as generic PCs, that's certainly a given.
The PowerMac line I was talking about was moderately priced - I believe that the PowerMac line was using 800MHz G4 chips at the same time the Mac Pro was using 1000MHz dual G5s.

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While it is true that FCP does not currently support multi-core performance (we're all waiting for many changes in the next version anytime now), it's a bit of a specious argument. I can't think of a time that I hit a wall in FCP that was due in any way to the inability to use multi cores, and this is working with uncompressed 8-bit or even 10-bit HD! RAM and disc speeds are the usual performance culprits, and that's true of FCP, Avid, Premier and I would even hazard to say Vegas or any other NLE.
I can - working with uncompressed 10-bit HD isn't a problem. Working with HDV, however, is, especially after adding a couple of simple effects, like, say, color correction. Mainly my problem was that I'd make a few cuts, then wait for it to render to make sure that the cuts worked well, make a few more cuts, wait for it to render, make a few more cuts... etc.

With Vegas, I don't have to wait for that rendering time.

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The processor really kicks up when compressing and compressor manages multi-cores just fine. So far in my experience, I have yet to have a moment where I cared about FCP having multi-core support or not. For me it is a none issue.
It's an issue for me, as I found Vegas to be unresponsive.

Quote:
When was the last time you used FCP? This feature is just a menu item away. In fact, as of FCP6.0 (I can't recall if it was available in 5 or not) it will even dynamically adjust if you want it to.
I used FCP 6.0 until December 2008. Yes, you can turn off "RT" rendering, and I could put videos into the timeline no problem. However, the minute I added any sort of filter, I'd need to render again.

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That's a codec issue, not a file system issue. You are just as likely to encounter that using any NLE on any OS. Besides, most codec mismatch issues I have encountered were do to user error or misunderstanding. This isn't a problem characteristic of any system.
Hey, I'm just trying to point out the pitfalls of switching.

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I seriously feel I need to stop here. This feels too much like bait for some sort of silly platform war, which is both pointless and against the rules of this forum.
It wasn't meant to be. I'm just explaining the reasons why I switched to PC; and in fact, included some reasons why you wouldn't want to switch.

I have nothing against the Apple platform - it just wasn't for me. If it works for you, fine. For my needs, it wasn't viable.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 04:15 PM   #47
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Bob, NTFS is the normal format for Windows these days so if you have Vista or Win XP that will be the format you would use as standard. I use Acronis Trueimage backup software. Acronis allows you to select the files for backup and where they will be placed( in my case the temp drive). The boot disc has the OS, programs on it and a directory I set up to copy the project files to as a backup from the temp disc. When I backup the boot disc I leave out the directory of the project backups as there is little point in having three copies!!!! I see little point in using a RAID if you are going to just edit DV or HDV or even AVCHD. If you do use a RAID use three or more drives as using just two may not be as fast as just using single discs especially if you simultaneously read and write to the RAID, it just makes directory management easier but not necessarily faster and for RAID 0 if you get a drive failure you will loose everything on all discs. External USB 2.0 are fast enough if you only read or write to them not both at the same time. Mine show about 30MBps or almost ten times what is needed for DV or HDV editing. USB 1.0 is not good enough!!! I don't think you will need a disc for project files as these do not contain any video or audio data just directions for the NLE to know what you want it to do and they are quite small even when one includes titles etc. You could put these on your boot drive and backup everything to the temp drive. I just happen to have a directory for all projects on the temp disc from past habit. The temp drive has the temp files location for all the programs I have so neither the storage or boot drive is involved for scratch disc operations. Most programs require a default location or specify scratch or temp files locations.

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Old March 4th, 2009, 10:01 AM   #48
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Thanks Ron. You are of excellent help. And very responsive too.
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Old March 6th, 2009, 09:38 AM   #49
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Building a computer for hd

I've been trying absorb advice and insights offered in this and related threads and have reached a point where I can "trigger" the order for my new computer, but I want solicit last minute advice from folks with more experience with contemporary HD editing/post.

My acquisition will be HDV with a Canon XH-A1s and HV-30.

My budget for hardware/software for editing/post (not including monitor which I already own) is $4K (I think the following list is likely run over by 10% but most of the past 40 working years have been in/around federal government, so an overage/over-run is normal/expected! -:) )

My parts list is as follows:
Hardware:
1 - GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
1 - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366
2 - WD VelociRaptor WD3000HLFS 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - One boot/read, the other write
1 - WD Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
1 - SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q
1 - ASUS EAH4870 DK/HTDI/1GD5 Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI-E
1 - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI/CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
1 - CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) TR3X6G1600C8D
1 - LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case

Monitor (already have it) - Samsung SyncMaster T240HD (I love it!)

Proposed software:
Adobe Production Premium CS4
CineForm HD Prospect
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit


To add later:
Blu-Ray R/W
7.1 Audio (?)
_________??

My CONCERNS/Questions:
1. I don't think I will OC the CPU at the outset, but haven't decided if I need additional COOLING. If needed, what would be a good product?
2. Should I skip the Vista Home and go for Vista Ultimate?
3. With the exceptions of 1 & 2 above, this list "feels" OK, but my confidence is in the high-90's but not quite 100% that this "nails it". What say ye?

Thanks in advance.

Dave Nuttall
San Antonio, TX
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Old March 6th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #50
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Don't put anything other than the OS and programs on the boot drive. Don't use it for any video or audio. I would save your money on the second Raptor and buy a few more hard drives that you could use for storage and editing. Any of the present 7200rpm drives will be 20 to 30 times faster than you need for HDV.
You can see my system earlier on in this thread and I have no problems editing 4 tracks of HDV realtime in Edius 5. The CPU is still the bottleneck on my system. I have X48 Gigabyte motherboard, Q9450, 8G RAM, running Vista 64.

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Old March 6th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
Don't put anything other than the OS and programs on the boot drive. Don't use it for any video or audio.
Yup. I had absorbed that, Ron...but good reminder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
I would save your money on the second Raptor and buy a few more hard drives that you could use for storage and editing. Any of the present 7200rpm drives will be 20 to 30 times faster than you need for HDV.
The 7200RPM drives are considerably less $$$/Gb, so I think I will exchange on Raptor for 2 WD Black Caviar, for a total of at least 3TB of workspace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
You can see my system earlier on in this thread ....
Yes, I had reviewed that post along with others enroute to my current situation.

THANKS, Ron.
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Old March 6th, 2009, 10:59 AM   #52
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Dave,

This is similar but with a few IMO better componets from avadirect.com. I think the raptor is overkill and the Antec case is a better value. Total is $1860.56

CUSTOM COMPUTER, Core™ i7 2-way CrossFire™ DDR3 24GB Performance Series System
ANTEC, Nine Hundred Two Black Mid-Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU
CORSAIR, CMPSU-750TX TX Series Power Supply, 750W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, Multi-GPU Ready
ASUS, P6T Deluxe V2, LGA1366, Intel® X58, 6400 MT/s QPI, DDR3-2000MHz (O.C.) 24GB /6, PCIe x16 SLI CF /3, SATA 3 Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, ATX, Retail
INTEL, Core™ i7-920 Quad-Core 2.66GHz, LGA1366, 6400 MT/s QPI, 8MB L3 Cache, 45nm, 130W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
COOLER MASTER, Hyper N520 CPU Cooler, Socket 775/1366/754/939/940/AM2, Copper/Aluminum
CORSAIR, 6GB (3 x 2GB) Dominator XMP PC3-12800 DDR3 1600MHz CL9 (8-8-8-24) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
ASUS, EAH4870 DK/HTDI/512MD5, Radeon™ HD 4870 750MHz, 512MB GDDR5 3600MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, DVI /2, HDTV-Out, Retail
WESTERN DIGITAL, 160GB WD RE Boot Drive, SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 16MB cache
WESTERN DIGITAL, 1TB WD Caviar® Black™ (WD1001FALS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache
RAID, No RAID, Independent HDD Drives
SAMSUNG, Super-WriteMaster™ SH-S223 Black 22x DVD±R/RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe, SATA, w/ Software, OEM
MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
WARRANTY, Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)
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Old March 6th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Williams View Post
I think the raptor is overkill and the Antec case is a better value.
I'm sure you're probably correct about the raptor-overkill, but it's a small way I can do my part for the economic stimulus!

I did change my parts list to sub the Antec case!

Thanks for sharing.
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Old May 25th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #54
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Hd pc

Hi Alex,

This is my experience. Are you going to use Adobe software? Since I am using Premiere Pro CS3 and Encore CS3, etc. I will assume you are for the purpose of my comments. But you can still use this information if you use another product. This is what I would build at least on the PC/Windows side I do not have experience or very little experience with macs. And anyone can add to this list. I currently have a DEll Model 490 computer it is about 3 years old, how time flies by. This computer had a Dual Zeon 3GHz processor, 4GB RAM, NVidia Quadro FX 3500 graphics card, Blackmagic Intensity Pro card, and sound Blaster Extreme Music sound card. I have an Adaptec ESATA controller card. I installed the ESATA card and the Blackmagic card my self. Every is working OK but Tech support for the different companies did not certify that the card from Blackmagic and Adaptec would work with a dell. All this you should check into first before buying. If the Drivers and the Hardware is certified to work with the computer that is the best. Thinking about it, better yet, my bottom line is to look into a Turnkey system if you can afford it you may not get absolutly everthing you want but you will know that everything will work. And let me say when every thing works and you can concentrate on your editing at hand it is wonderful. It took me about 3 month traching down all the bug in my computer when I tried to upgrade it. I probably would have gone the Turnkey rout if I had to do it all over again.
This computer seems really fast but it is just fast enough for doing HDV video processing. I am doing it right now with no problems. I have ask a lot of people and they say this is border line at best to try to do Uncompressed HD.

First, If you are using Prmiere Pro software Adobe does not recomend going with a 64bit motherboard and OS. So this means that 4GB RAM is all you can use at the moment. I hate this because Premiere is always saying I am low on Memory. I don't know if this is a bug or really true because it happens only when I try to use the titler(spelling).

Next, If you build a PC yourself, make sure that all Drivers for you graphics card, sound card,etc. Are Adobe certified.
This was a big issue for me trying to figure out probems when I tried to upgrade my dell. You need 6-10 7200RPM HDs in a RAID 0 configuration to run Uncompressed HD. It is in the capturing process that take all the resources. If it was not for that you could get away with a slower PC. This is for the speed not so much for storage space even though HD does take up a lot of room. I think you will need 2 quad code Processors 3ghz or more for Uncompressed HD, give or take. I don't know which cpu type is the best. If you go with 10,000 RPM or 15,000RPM drives then you might only need 4-6 drives. I use one separate drive for my programs and OS. One drive for my scratch disk, and 2 7200RPM drives in RAID 0 for my projects. and then External drives for my backup project files. The backup drives don't have to be very fast even USB drive are OK because you are just coping files. Also some of the on board Sound is not that great from what I have heard.

One other think, I have 2 24" dell monitors the 2407 and the 2408 Ultrasharp and I would recomend these highly. Not only do they look great but you can use them as a regular HDTV with all the input you will ever need. These even have Memory card and USB slots in them.

John Gerard
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Old May 26th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by John Gerard View Post
If you are using Prmiere Pro software Adobe does not recomend going with a 64bit motherboard and OS. So this means that 4GB RAM is all you can use at the moment. I hate this because Premiere is always saying I am low on Memory.
That's absolutely true for CS3, but not for CS4. ;)
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Old May 27th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #56
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CS4 and 64bit

Hi,

Adobe finally went the way of 64bit. I read not to long ago that Adobe had no plans to create a 64bit version of Premiere Pro and I thought that stinks with all the low memory errors I get. That might be a good reason to upgrade to CS4 except that my computer is working so good at the monent maybe I should not mess with it. I get a low memory or crash once in a while but that is it. As I said I think the key was making sure all drivers are Adobe certified.

Also, I turned off even more services than Adobe recomends and everything seem stable. I am also resisting the urge to go on the internet with this computer. In part this is so I don't have to install any AV software and no internet temp files to slow down my computer. Since I don't need any networking options at all I turn off all of those services. Including remote desktop, remote registry, telephony services, etc. amoung many others.

John Gerard
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Old May 27th, 2009, 12:21 PM   #57
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HD Specs

One other small issue to remember is that you want to keep your HDs at half full or less. So, concider that on the amount of hard drive space you will need. The more data on the Hard drive the slower it is. So I run one project at a time on my RAID 0 drives (2 500GB)and then copy it over to backup before starting another project. And/or I put other projects that are waiting to be finished on other drives and copy them to the RAID when needed. I have found the cleaner you can keep thing the better your computer will run so don't install a lot of crap you will never use and have a second cheep computer that you can hook to the internet and install other sotware not directly related to creating your projects.

John Gerard
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Old May 27th, 2009, 12:57 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by John Gerard View Post
Adobe finally went the way of 64bit.
Note that Premiere is not a 64-bit app, although it does manage memory better than in CS3 and can use more RAM under a 64-bit OS. In CS4, only Photoshop is 64-bit.

Adobe, in their white paper on the subject, recommends Vista 64 with 16GB of RAM for CS4.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 01:41 PM   #59
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HD Specs

One other small issue to remember is that you want to keep your HDs at half full or less. So, concider that on the amount of hard drive space you will need. The more data on the Hard drive the slower it is. So I run one project at a time on my RAID 0 drives (2 500GB)and then copy it over to backup before starting another project. And/or I put other projects that are waiting to be finished on other drives and copy them to the RAID when needed. I have found the cleaner you can keep thing the better your computer will run so don't install a lot of crap you will never use and have a second cheep computer that you can hook to the internet and install other sotware not directly related to creating your projects.

John Gerard
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Old May 31st, 2009, 05:22 AM   #60
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I have posted on another forum some guides with considerations about storage, new PC's and optimizing Vista. Maybe you can benefit from reading all articles. Please keep in mind that first of all I'm an autodidact, so I had an idiot as a teacher, and second video editing is just a hobby.

Adobe Forums: How to get the best from a PC? Some...
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