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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:19 AM   #1
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The Best High-Budget HD NLE System!!

Hi everyone ...

This is my first topic in this nice forum, and I apprecaite any feedback ..

I am establishing a new production house, and about to buy all required equipments. My only concern is: what is the best high-budget HD NLE system? My budget for the post-production system is upto $70,000 if I have to.

I want the system to be:
1- Extramly stable and flexable.
2- Windows based
3- Real "REAL-TIME" HD & SD performance (Not Real-Time preview like most software-based NLE)
4- And sure, it must be full-featured NLE.

I will buy the folowing camcorders, so the new system must work them:
- Six Sony XDCAM EX3 for TV programs & shows production.
- One Sony F900R for high quality tv commercials, documntries, etc.

I have had a very good experince in the last 13 years with DPS Perception RT, dpsVelocity, and now VelocityQ 3D Delux NLE System (brand now owned by Harris). But, since VelocityQ is an SD only system, my first logical choice was to go with same company, with VelocityHD 3D Delux NLE system. Check it out in this link:
VelocityHD™ - Real-Time HD/SD Non-Linear Editing System

However, I am very open, and can go with other brand, or systems if they will deliver better HD performance than VelocityHD. So, Any idea?

I apprecaite any feedback ...

Kind regrds,
aboammar
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Old December 31st, 2008, 03:01 AM   #2
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Over 100 views, and no single reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance...
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Old December 31st, 2008, 05:46 AM   #3
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I would suggest:

Matrox Axio LE or RT.X2 with Adobe CS4 Production Premium
Videoguys.com Matrox Non Linear Video Editing - RT.X2, RTX2, MXO, RTX100 Xtreme Pro, RTX.100, RTX.10, Parhelia

Avid Media Composer with Mojo DX
Videoguys.com Avid Media Composer Upgrade $495, Media Composer $2495, Avid Media Composer Upgrade with MojoSDI $2495

Put either one in a dual Xeon Quad Core workstation (HP or Dell). Add Plenty of Storage. Go Vista 64 and 6+ GB of RAM.

Gary
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Old December 31st, 2008, 05:48 AM   #4
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You should take a look at the Grass Valley/Edius software and hardware to be found here:
Canopus Worldwide Home

This will provide descriptions of all the products available, a link to the Edius forum and under support the link to a trial version version of Edius. Since GV took over the Canopus/Edius product line it has been sold into many broadcast TV stations as well as its traditional markets.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 06:44 AM   #5
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Thanks for the feedback ..

I am not a big fan of Matrox, and Adobe products. I used to own Matorx DigiSuit system for many years before, and I had alot of bad exprince with it. Besides that, going with Matrox, and Eduis systems seems like a downgrading from VelocityHD in term of real-time HD performance!! Guys, I am looking for a high-budget, high-end NLE system, and both Matrox, and Eduis are basicaly not considered as one of those.

Avid's systems seems a better alternative. But, how dose Avid's MC, Symphoney, and DS compare with VelocityHD n term of RT performance?

Thanks again in advance.....
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Old December 31st, 2008, 01:06 PM   #6
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Yasser, I know thay this is not what you want to hear but unfortunately the editing industry
seems to steer away from "uncompressed" wizards. Why ?

The financial burden upon having all the add on hardware / controller cards - storage vaults as per requirements of your proposed system JUST to conform to to another compression standard for end delivery is the key to performance editing with a - non on your list progg like Premiere.

If AVID , RED , and Thompson , Adobe and Vegas are all taking hands with a intermediate Codec like Cineform .... Then Avid , Red ,Adobe. Thompson etc. must be from a different planet.

Moving uncompressed footage around with a certain device could be your "ultimate" only to conform to a compressed version at the end of the cycle.

Here is the Challenge / Proof to me that you have got a faster workflow with your proposed system with visual EBD compressed quality as main objective as opposed to my Cineform Prospect 4 K System BUILT on your same hardware requirements, raid etc.

Relax - The Third World never sleeps because we have no money !

Happy New Year Brother ! and welcome to the world of SUPERB alternatives.

Herman.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 01:26 PM   #7
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In the early days of NLE Quantum Henry was one of the top guns. Maybe this is the solution you are looking for and it should be in your price range.

Quantel - High Definition
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Old December 31st, 2008, 03:14 PM   #8
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Happy new year to everone :)

Noel, I never heard about Quantum before!!! Is it a real-time NLE system?

I will check the link tomorwo
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Old January 1st, 2009, 06:33 AM   #9
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I forgot to mention... I learned that Avid's NLE are a littel hard to learn, so, is there any demo version for Media Composer, or Xpress Pro for instance?



THanks
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Old January 1st, 2009, 12:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasser Saeed View Post
Besides that, going with Matrox, and Eduis systems seems like a downgrading from VelocityHD in term of real-time HD performance!!
That may not be an accurate assumption, unless you're aware of specific things Velocity HD can do in real time which Matrox and Edius can't. The Velocity HD web site promises, "guaranteed full-quality HD playback of two video streams, two dynamic graphics streams, and optional real-time 3D DVE". On the Edius forums that would be considered a modest starting point for real-time performance, where the only limit on the number of real-time streams is the underlying computing power of the editing system. (Which can be improved over time with new processors, rather than being limited by a dedicated hardware board.) And Edius has always emphasized "real" real-time performance at full HD resolution, rather than reduced-resolution previews like some other NLEs.

It may be that you need an expensive solution like Velocity or Avid for your purposes, but don't rule out less expensive options without some further investigation. For more info on Edius see NLE Systems and NLE Software.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 04:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw View Post
That may not be an accurate assumption, unless you're aware of specific things Velocity HD can do in real time which Matrox and Edius can't. The Velocity HD web site promises, "guaranteed full-quality HD playback of two video streams, two dynamic graphics streams, and optional real-time 3D DVE". On the Edius forums that would be considered a modest starting point for real-time performance, where the only limit on the number of real-time streams is the underlying computing power of the editing system. (Which can be improved over time with new processors, rather than being limited by a dedicated hardware board.) And Edius has always emphasized "real" real-time performance at full HD resolution, rather than reduced-resolution previews like some other NLEs.

It may be that you need an expensive solution like Velocity or Avid for your purposes, but don't rule out less expensive options without some further investigation. For more info on Edius see NLE Systems and NLE Software.
THanks for your feedback ...

We used Matrox DigiSuite system for 4 years or so, before upgrading to dpsVelocity (Not VelocityQ or VelocityHD), and its realtime performance was far away from that of the first dpsVelocity system. THen we upgraded to VelocityQ which offered more than twice the performance of dpsVelocity, and we where very happey with it.

I have no experince with any Edius system, but I assumed that its RT performance are less than VelocityHD system becouse Edius price are very low in comparison. Beside that, I have read some reviews in tha past about NLE software, and systems, and it was clear that Edius RT systems are considered entry-level hardware-based RT system, unlike Velocity systems. Please correct me if I am wrong!
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 08:15 AM   #12
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Yasser ,


This is how you can achieve multiple layers of real time HD /

Scalable Technology

also take a look at their new HD card - HD THUNDER.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 01:50 PM   #13
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Yasser ,


This is how you can achieve multiple layers of real time HD /

Scalable Technology

also take a look at their new HD card - HD THUNDER.

THanks for the link. However, I did not understand what is special about Eduis Scalable Technology!!??

I think all NLE software use some sort of Scalable Technology. For example, my Vegas Pro runs faster everytime I upgrade my PC, and I think this is the case with every NLE.

I downloaded the demo version of Eduis 5, and I spent few days learing it. The interface looks very nice, unlike Vegas, and it is kind of easy to learn, but man ... it very slow in compare to Vegas!!! What Scalable Technology are you talking about man??!!!

For the record, I used the same HD clips in both, with the same transations and effects.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 06:35 PM   #14
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You should look at the old Discreet products at Autodesk - 2D and 3D Design Software for the Architecture, Engineering, Construction, Manufacturing, and Entertainment Industries I believe they are really pricey.
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Old January 3rd, 2009, 08:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yasser Saeed View Post
I downloaded the demo version of Eduis 5, and I spent few days learing it. The interface looks very nice, unlike Vegas, and it is kind of easy to learn, but man ... it very slow in compare to Vegas!!! What Scalable Technology are you talking about man??!!!
If Edius seemed slower that's probably because it's always doing full-resolution output, while Vegas uses low-resolution previews to improve apparent performance. In either case the real-time performance is scalable with improvements in the underlying hardware, while a dedicated hardware system like Velocity may be limited by the Velocity board itself.

Unless you're testing NLEs on a high-end computer you're not seeing what they can do given adequate hardware, so your conclusions about performance could be skewed. Either Edius or Vegas should be able to match the real-time performance I quoted from the Velocity web site, given a fast current computer. I don't see editing two layers of HD in real time being all that impressive - I do that on my laptop using Edius.
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