16 bit uncompressed codec - lossless at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

High Definition Video Editing Solutions
For all HD formats including HDV, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD and others.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:27 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
16 bit uncompressed codec - lossless

Hey, I just saw this on a video news website. Anyone know if 16-bit is to much? Is it useful?? I'd think that G5 owners would benefit from the 64-bit?

Free 16 bit None codec - 16 bit uncompressed

From Jim Tierney of Digital Anarchy: An offshoot of developing Microcosm was a 16-bit version of the None codec. We figured some of you might have a use for it, so it's available for free on our web site:

Free version:
http://www.digitalanarchy.com/micro/micro_none16.html

Pay version:
http://www.digitalanarchy.com/micro/micro_loss.html

Chris
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:33 AM   #2
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
The files aren't 64 bit, the pixels are. 16 bit for each RGBA channel
results in 64 bits for each pixel.

I would say this is only useful for people doing lots of compositing
work and working with CGI and things. Our DV camcorders don't
even have 8 bits per channel (due to sampling ratio etc.).
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:35 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Oh, ok. But, we should still leave it here for people that could benefit from it. I'm not doing that type of work, but I'm sure some of us are or will.

Chris
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:35 AM   #4
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
16bit is little overkill for the HD10U (an 8bit source.) Although there are valid reasons for the upconvert, probably 99% of editing operations will not need it. The problem with a 16bit uncompressed RGBA format (64bits per pixel) is the file size. A single frame of 720p is over 7MB, which puts single stream playback requirements at 211MBytes per second.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:39 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
On their site it says, "With 64-bit, you can maintain smoother gradients and more accurate color. Unfortunately, deeper color usually means greater file sizes."

Does the codec actually make footage look better? What if we render out to DC30 codec - then convert to the free Microcosm? Will we get better "gradients and more accurate color" by converting at the final stage?

Maybe I'm totally lost with this point, but it seems like the final render would benefit from the 64-bit codec.

Chris
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:51 AM   #6
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
Unfortunately the smooth gradients are lost in the 8bit acquistion they can't be restored. So an 8bit per channel file convert to 16bits per channel still has the quality on the original 8bit data.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:57 AM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Hmm, is there anyway to mess with the HD10 and make it 16 or 64 bit? I'm just trying to figure out if there is a way to bypass and get the aquisition at a higher rate. I know, we all want that..

What if we "composited" the same footage over itself before doing anything else. So, in essence you shoot 8-bit, composite itself using the 64-bit codec, but adding deeper blacks and other small tweaks during the conversion.

I bet the new footage would get something out of the process?
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 11:01 AM   #8
RED Code Chef
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Holland
Posts: 12,514
You are not even utilizing the 8 bits fully. In an 8 bit system you
can get 16 million colors. You can't increase your camera and
almost no-one who shoots with such equipment would benefit
from a 16 bit file format.

Just stick with the regular format. That's enough data to handle
and fill with colors.
__________________

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef

Join the DV Challenge | Lady X

Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors
Rob Lohman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 11:03 AM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,707
Ok, thanks for the info!

Chris
__________________
Christopher C. Murphy
Director, Producer, Writer
Christopher C. Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2003, 11:04 AM   #10
CTO, CineForm Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California
Posts: 8,090
You can tweek the gamma curves is a 16 bit space better, with greater accuracy, a small advantage even with 8 bit source data. Unfortunately there is no partical way to achieve what you are asking.
__________________
David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com
blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman
David Newman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network