more Twixtor questions at DVinfo.net

Maria Villarreal · December 22nd, 2003, 06:31 PM

I'm very curious about a couple of things with regard to output/distribution. I've asked a couple of post-production houses on Highland Ave. in Los Angeles whether or not they could take footage from a DVHS tape and down convert to Digibeta using footage shot on the HD10. I gave them the specs regarding MPEG2/720/30p compressed onto minidv tape. Three of these places said they couldn't do it. "The format's too new." So I'm wondering how everyone else -- esp. those working for a cable channel--are getting the down convert. I also asked about upconverting or printing to film/24p. The answer was about the same.

My other issue concerns Twixtor. Since most of the post-houses seemed to balk at the peculiar Hi-Def 30p/MPEG2 specs of the HD10, after hearing about Twixtor I thought "problem solved." But I'm still wondering if the workflow is this: you "finish" your edited HD10 footage through Aspect, run it through Twixtor, then output to DVHS (@ 24P). I'm hoping that at that point, a dub house would be able to work with you in terms of downconvert or upconvert to film. Thoughts anyone???

Christopher C. Murphy · December 23rd, 2003, 08:46 AM

Maybe this should be a brand new thread under HDV editing?

I'd really like to know what the possiblities are with using "film look" software. Can anyone point us to the best resource for tweaking HDV footage to look like "film". I think we're all interested in learning more about it.

I have FCP 4, so anyone else that used it to get a "film look" - maybe you can share your experience?

Murph

Heath McKnight · December 23rd, 2003, 10:08 AM

What exactly is Twixtor?

heath

Maria Villarreal · December 23rd, 2003, 10:49 AM

Check out this link that explains more. Very intriguing indeed. I wonder what David Newman would make of this product being used along with Aspect?

Newman?

www.revisionfx.com/rstwixtor.htm

Alex Raskin · December 23rd, 2003, 11:10 AM

Heath,

Twixtor allows you to do 2 things with a video clip:

- change frame rate (say, 30 to 24fps),

and/or

- change the speed of the video.

The most important thing is that it allows you to get very good results with speed changes when you need to slow down a lot.

As everyone knows, regular video editors cannot produce smooth motion with slowdowns of 4x or more, because lack of recorded data starts showing as jerkiness in the resulting slo-mo footage.

Twixtor addresses the problem by actually RECREATING the missing video data, thus ensuring smooth motion.

Re:vision Twixtor tutorials are pretty good in explaining all the features and applications of this AE plug-in.

I used and liked Twistor a lot. My opinion is that it's the best for the money. (I do not represent re:vision).

David Newman · December 23rd, 2003, 11:11 AM

I have experimented with Twixtor and it seem to work fine with surprising good results. A few Aspect HD customers have done deeper investigations than myself. One noted they thought the After Effects version of Twixtor was better for down converting to 24P, yet I was able to do that conversion under Premiere also. It looks nice. It is very slow. :)

Christopher C. Murphy · December 23rd, 2003, 11:19 AM

I'm surprised there isn't any freeware or low-cost software that does almos the same thing. It seems to be the norm - someone creates expensive software and a freeware version pops up in the year.

Any known alternatives to these? Otherwise, I guess it's something worth purchasing if you want a professional version for a "film look".

If "film" were only less expensive...easier to use and was able to be seen immediately like video! Film still and will for quite a while look better in my opinion...warm and extremely pleasant to look at for over 1 1/2 hours.

Video is says television to me, but its not so bad with the HD10u.

Murph

Maria Villarreal · December 23rd, 2003, 11:34 AM

Thanks for responding David & everyone. Now if we can only get the dubhouses to adopt the format quicker. :)

-mv

Josef Crow · December 23rd, 2003, 02:52 PM

I was able to convert 30p to 24p using Twixtor and After Effects. Got very good results. Yes, it's very slow. The footage was saved as uncompressed AVI. Results were less good going to HuffyUV. Yes, takes up a large amount of memory, but since the 'film' would be a finished edit, that's not a huge concern.

The HD10u has the same resolution as the Panasonic Varicam. With conversion to 24p, I should think it would be possible to compress footage to DVCPRO-HD quite easily and export to a rented Panasonic tape deck for use by post houses, but can't say i've tried this yet myself.

Les Dit · December 23rd, 2003, 03:00 PM

Twixtor is optical flow software. It tries to recreate frames for the speed conversion.
The simple way to do30->24 is frame blending. That works well enough for 'lay people' and is fast.
The biggest 'bitch' for post houses is getting the frames off the DV tape, and doing the job fast.
Even if you have the frames on a fire wire drive, it will still be slow for them.
There are 'boxes' that some places have that also do a nice 'Twixtor type' job. Teranax (sp?) is one. 30 in, 24 out.
Show some 'regular' folks some frame blended footage, and see what happens.
-Les

December 22nd, 2003, 06:31 PM	#1
Maria Villarreal Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3	more Twixtor questions I'm very curious about a couple of things with regard to output/distribution. I've asked a couple of post-production houses on Highland Ave. in Los Angeles whether or not they could take footage from a DVHS tape and down convert to Digibeta using footage shot on the HD10. I gave them the specs regarding MPEG2/720/30p compressed onto minidv tape. Three of these places said they couldn't do it. "The format's too new." So I'm wondering how everyone else -- esp. those working for a cable channel--are getting the down convert. I also asked about upconverting or printing to film/24p. The answer was about the same. My other issue concerns Twixtor. Since most of the post-houses seemed to balk at the peculiar Hi-Def 30p/MPEG2 specs of the HD10, after hearing about Twixtor I thought "problem solved." But I'm still wondering if the workflow is this: you "finish" your edited HD10 footage through Aspect, run it through Twixtor, then output to DVHS (@ 24P). I'm hoping that at that point, a dub house would be able to work with you in terms of downconvert or upconvert to film. Thoughts anyone??? __________________ "Est in Arcadio Ego"

December 23rd, 2003, 08:46 AM	#2
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	New thread? Maybe this should be a brand new thread under HDV editing? I'd really like to know what the possiblities are with using "film look" software. Can anyone point us to the best resource for tweaking HDV footage to look like "film". I think we're all interested in learning more about it. I have FCP 4, so anyone else that used it to get a "film look" - maybe you can share your experience? Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

December 23rd, 2003, 10:08 AM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	What exactly is Twixtor? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 23rd, 2003, 10:49 AM	#4
Maria Villarreal Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3	more on Twixtor re: output possibilities Check out this link that explains more. Very intriguing indeed. I wonder what David Newman would make of this product being used along with Aspect? Newman? www.revisionfx.com/rstwixtor.htm __________________ "Est in Arcadio Ego"

December 23rd, 2003, 11:11 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	I have experimented with Twixtor and it seem to work fine with surprising good results. A few Aspect HD customers have done deeper investigations than myself. One noted they thought the After Effects version of Twixtor was better for down converting to 24P, yet I was able to do that conversion under Premiere also. It looks nice. It is very slow. :) __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 23rd, 2003, 11:10 AM	#5
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Heath, Twixtor allows you to do 2 things with a video clip: - change frame rate (say, 30 to 24fps), and/or - change the speed of the video. The most important thing is that it allows you to get very good results with speed changes when you need to slow down a lot. As everyone knows, regular video editors cannot produce smooth motion with slowdowns of 4x or more, because lack of recorded data starts showing as jerkiness in the resulting slo-mo footage. Twixtor addresses the problem by actually RECREATING the missing video data, thus ensuring smooth motion. Re:vision Twixtor tutorials are pretty good in explaining all the features and applications of this AE plug-in. I used and liked Twistor a lot. My opinion is that it's the best for the money. (I do not represent re:vision).

December 23rd, 2003, 11:19 AM	#7
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I'm surprised there isn't any freeware or low-cost software that does almos the same thing. It seems to be the norm - someone creates expensive software and a freeware version pops up in the year. Any known alternatives to these? Otherwise, I guess it's something worth purchasing if you want a professional version for a "film look". If "film" were only less expensive...easier to use and was able to be seen immediately like video! Film still and will for quite a while look better in my opinion...warm and extremely pleasant to look at for over 1 1/2 hours. Video is says television to me, but its not so bad with the HD10u. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

December 23rd, 2003, 11:34 AM	#8
Maria Villarreal Tourist Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3	Thanks for responding David & everyone. Now if we can only get the dubhouses to adopt the format quicker. :) -mv __________________ "Est in Arcadio Ego"

December 23rd, 2003, 02:52 PM	#9
Josef Crow Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new york, ny Posts: 66	I was able to convert 30p to 24p using Twixtor and After Effects. Got very good results. Yes, it's very slow. The footage was saved as uncompressed AVI. Results were less good going to HuffyUV. Yes, takes up a large amount of memory, but since the 'film' would be a finished edit, that's not a huge concern. The HD10u has the same resolution as the Panasonic Varicam. With conversion to 24p, I should think it would be possible to compress footage to DVCPRO-HD quite easily and export to a rented Panasonic tape deck for use by post houses, but can't say i've tried this yet myself.

December 23rd, 2003, 03:00 PM	#10
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Twixtor is optical flow software. It tries to recreate frames for the speed conversion. The simple way to do30->24 is frame blending. That works well enough for 'lay people' and is fast. The biggest 'bitch' for post houses is getting the frames off the DV tape, and doing the job fast. Even if you have the frames on a fire wire drive, it will still be slow for them. There are 'boxes' that some places have that also do a nice 'Twixtor type' job. Teranax (sp?) is one. 30 in, 24 out. Show some 'regular' folks some frame blended footage, and see what happens. -Les