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Old May 15th, 2004, 11:22 PM   #1
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FCP and 1080p?

I don't know if I'm walking on sand, but maybe somebody can give me an input.
I made a short (7' out from 50' footage) in 16mm, telecined it into DV format edited it in FCP and was happy with it.

For a strange reason everybody who saw it like it a lot (it happens sometimes) and convinced me to work again on it by creating a HD version to show it in festivals. (Because of some digital efffects it would not make sense to go back to negative-cutting).

So next Monday I'll have a telecine-session booked to re-telecine the whole footage into 1080p. They will give me a D5 tape (affter I paid) and then I will stay alone in this wide world and start to think how do I get this data into FCP?

I know, intelliigent people think before they sign up for an expensive telecining, but probably I'm not part of that groupe.

The idea was:
- Quicktime suports 1080p
- the serial ATA of the G5 is fast enough (160MB/sec)
So why should it not work?

Why didn't I go for 720p? I think 360 lines less are a lot, and should I want one day to blow it up to 35mm the difference would be even worst.

So my question, does somebody have an idea how and where I could get the data into a quicktime file?

Also does somebody know if there exist external Harddrives based on serial ATA for the Mac?
Thanks
Istvan
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Old May 15th, 2004, 11:45 PM   #2
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FCP HD supports 1080 24p across the PCI bus. This means you'll have to find a third party card that supports capture of the 1080p. I would suggest AJ Kona HD, Aurora Igniter and Cinewave
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Old May 16th, 2004, 01:52 AM   #3
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Thanks for help, even if this looks like a very expensive solution. Do you know if there is some company who rent one of this in LA? Or could do the capture by service?
BTW, the AJ Kona, which from the describtion I liked the most will come out only in Gune.
Again thanks
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Old May 16th, 2004, 11:55 AM   #4
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It sounds like you really want to keep your costs down. For that reason you may want to avoid 1080p as the sustained drive rate of 100MBytes/s (for 8bit YUV 4:2:2 24p) is beyond want you can stripe of SATA drives within your system. 1280x720p24 8bit YUV 4:2:2 is a much more managable 44MBytes/s (10bit YUV 4:2:2 would also work at 55MBytes/s). 4:4:4 720p or 1080p work will require a more expensive raid solution.
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Old May 16th, 2004, 12:36 PM   #5
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As far as I know the serial ATA drives should have an avarage troughput of 160MB/s, and the G5 does have them. So I don't see why it shouldn't work with 1080p?.

But even if I would have to buy a faster RAID, it is an investment which I could justify. I have dificulies to spent 4.000-5.000$ for an AURORA solution just for a single one-time need.

But in either case, the problem is the same: how do I get the data into the system without having to spend 4.000-5.000$ for buying a card for capturing?
Thanks
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Old May 16th, 2004, 01:02 PM   #6
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The 160MB/s is a theoretical speed of the channel, not of the drives themselves. In a RAID 0 configuration you can expect to sustain around 35MB/s per drive. This means you are likely to need a 4 drive SATA array to sustain the speeds you need for single stream 1080p editing.
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Old May 16th, 2004, 01:21 PM   #7
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You can probably find a post house in LA that will put the files on to your RAID drives for way less than $5,000 USD. Take the RAID and connect it to your G5 and you're all set to edit. Once it's done, take the RAID back to the post house and you can get your files recorded to film.
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Old May 16th, 2004, 02:32 PM   #8
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I've been dealing with the reality of this SATA RAID business on the G5. I have a four drive software SATA RAID in my G5, and get consistently 120-150 MB/sec read/write. I can edit 4 streams of 720p DVCPRO HD with full quality HD monitoring and realtime effects on each stream, in DVCPRO HD format you'll be able to get at least 2 streams of 1080p editable, and I think when I last tried I was getting 3. Remember this is a compressed 1090p format you're editing so I would do your final online in uncompressed 10 bit 1080 if you're doing any colour correction. Please see the thread above from Christopher Murphy for details of my setup.
I agree with Jeff, just go to a post house and have them put your digital HD material onto a big hard drive for you to take home, doesn't have to be a RAID for transportation purposes, then convert the files to DVCPRO HD in Compressor or FCP for editing (keeping the originals of course!).

Cheers,

Paul
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Old May 16th, 2004, 02:48 PM   #9
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By the way, you can edit a lot more than 4 streams of 720p HD on this setup if you reduce your playback quality, I can actually edit 10 streams with realtime scaling and motion effects on each stream if I go to "low quality" playback, but I like to see what I'm working on in full rez so I don't do this.

Hope this helps
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Old May 16th, 2004, 03:06 PM   #10
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Thanks to everybody for help, but I still have three questions:

1- do you know a post in LA which does it? I asked Crest and Entertainment Post and both said they don't offer this service yet, others gave me even more confusing answers.

2- Anyway should I find a place where they do it then beside Quicktime which fileformat is dealing with 1080p in a way that FCP can read and work with it?

3- Paul wrote: "...DVCPRO HD format you'll be able to get at least 2 streams of 1080p editable..."--I thought DVCPRO HD is as format limited to 720p?

Thanks again
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Old May 16th, 2004, 05:07 PM   #11
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DVCPRO HD has two formats, 720p and 1080i, I don't believe it supports 1080p yet. I would think you would want to offline edit in one of these formats in FCP then online at the end in 1080p if you are going out to film, but there may be better methods.

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Old May 16th, 2004, 06:54 PM   #12
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I'm not in LA so I can't help with the post house question. FCP HD supports the I/O of these formats

Supported formats and I/O


Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit HD (4:2:2, YUV) via PCI card

Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit SD (4:2:2, YUV) via FireWire or PCI card

DVCPRO 50 (4:2:2) via FireWire

DV/DVCAM (4:1:1) via FireWire

NTSC and PAL

HD at 1080i and 1080p (23.976, true 24, 25, 29.97, 30 fps)

The PCI card route is what I mentioned earlier.
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Old May 16th, 2004, 07:20 PM   #13
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Thanks indeed for the list.
Maybe I'm totaly walking on the wrong side and I think to have problems where there are none, but my question was on file-formats and not video-formats.

I knew that FCP supports 1080p24, my question went more in the direction concerning the recording format on the Hard-drive.

Lets put in this way:
- I find a lab and go ask them to record the 1080p24 data to my Hard-drive
- they smile and start to do it.
- now if the file-format will be a Quicktime file, then I know I'm fine
- but which other fileformat will be fine for me (FCP) too???

Probably I do miss something somewhere, but with post-labs I learned one thing: if I'm not able to do the right question, the results will be very often a delusion.
Thanks
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