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Old May 19th, 2004, 12:57 PM   #1
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Laptop editing

Hello everybody,
is it possible to do real time hdv editing with lumiere hdv and final cut pro hd with a Powerbook G4 dual 1.5ghz with 1Gb ram or I do need a G5 ?? I beleive you can do real time editing on a pc with adobe premiere pro and aspect hd so is the same possible for mac users ???
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Old May 19th, 2004, 01:08 PM   #2
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What resolution and do you hope to use the internal drive?
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Old May 19th, 2004, 01:21 PM   #3
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well tha laptops have 1280x720 resolution and yes i do would like to use internal drives...if not i dont mind to use firewire drives if they works better....
at pc editing there are some laptops with 3.4ghz pentium iv with 2gb ram and 2 internal drives with raid0...with aspect hd I am sure they would work nicely but what about at mac???
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Old May 19th, 2004, 01:30 PM   #4
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If you are going to edit in a low resolution, off-line resolution, then the PowerBooks would be fine. However, for RT effects etc. you will need stripped drives and at present the PowerBooks are limited to one internal drive. A FireWire RAID would be and option, but there goes the portability. If you have an immediate need for this type of editing I would suggest you stay with the PC laptops for a year or so. I don't expect G5 PowerBooks for another.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 03:20 PM   #5
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Gabor,

You mentioned you have a Powerbook dual G4? Did you mean single?

Also, the question you need to ask yourself is how do you look at your footage while you edit it?

HD native editing makes sense, only if you see your edits in HD on a/HD monitor b/Cinema Display c/Laptop LCD (but you compromise ease of use, since it takes over your screen).

I tell you, on a laptop...I prefer to watch my edits real-time on an NTSC monitor in widescreen. For this, I would do offline DV anamorphic and keep all the realtime benefits. Going online at 720p from there is just a few clicks with Lumiere HD.
Take a look at the QuickTimes:
http://lumierehd.com/workflow.php
#6 - Online to HDV 720p

Keep in mind that unless you have a way to monitor your edits in HD resolution, you're looking at less than DV resolution anyway in your browser and canvas.

Finally, we did test DVCPRO HD on a G4 500Mhz 500 MB RAM Powerbook and it played fine, 2 layers.

I hope this helps.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 03:28 PM   #6
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Frederic, I watched the 3 clips you have posted on your site and they're great! Can't wait to see more...

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Old May 19th, 2004, 03:38 PM   #7
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Bottom line, on a mac laptop, editing with Lumiere, you will be offline. So, you won't need an external drive.

On a PC laptop, you can edit real-time with AspectHD, but you'll probably need a firewire drive - not a complete RAID setup, by the way.

So, if you want to edit on a Mac, you can - offline.
Otherwise, you'll need a PC, AspectHD, and a 1394 drive.

And Frederic,

Why lug around an HD display on the road (I just can't see any other reason to use a laptop for editing) when you can preview in Premiere/FCP/Vegas? The preview window is small, but I don't see what use having another display would be, except to possibly check color - in which case an LCD is useless anyway. And if you do want to check color, you shouldn't be previewing in an offline codec regardless.

Converting from HDV to DVCPRO, just to edit RT on a mac sounds like a hassle too. But DVCPRO real time on a G4? Sounds cool. When you say 2 layers, is that transitions too? External drive?
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Old May 19th, 2004, 04:05 PM   #8
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Will,

I beg to differ.

90% of HD productions in Hollywood are cut offline. 100% of film productions are cut offline. Offline editing is a very common and efficient workflow for editing.

My motto is the following: Whatever solution you choose, make sure you don't compromise ease of use. Don't kill the creative process just because you want to be bleeding edge.

Honestly, any computer monitor isn't the ideal to do color correction. In our workflow, we recommend to color correct only once the timeline is back online at full 720p resolution. So I agree with you, don't color correct with an offline codec or at least don't make final color correction decisions.

Converting from HDV to DVCPRO to edit in HD RT is a fantastic solution! With 2 cinema displays it is a revolutionary solution. No extra hardware and real-time HD. We do consider DVCPRO HD an offline codec of HDV in our workflow however. Keep in mind that going back online with our solution is only a few clicks because of the poject preparation we do using the XML Interchange Format.

You see, no offense...seriously, but this is a hard workflow to sell to non professional editors who edit on Premier because they have never been exposed to the professional editing environment. Does Premier have an offline/online Media Manager type feature?

Just my humble opinion :)

2 layers without transitions internal drive.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 07:18 PM   #9
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Frederic,

Don't get me wrong - I'm not suggesting that offline isn't widely used. I just wanted to suggest to Gabor that a monitor might not be that useful offline. Or practical to bring on a trip for that matter.

Also, I ddn't mean to knock DVCPRO as an offline codec, rather, I just wanted to point out that it would be less practical to use on a laptop (for travel).

It also seems a bit presumptuous to suggest that everyone editing in Premiere is a non-professional. For the record, Premiere Pro is a different program from all previous iterations of Premiere, and is, in fact, quite capable for a professional working on a tight budget - especially with HDV.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 09:40 PM   #10
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Will,

I agree with you regarding taking a monitor on the road, it isn't very convenient. DVCPRO HD is indeed a more appropriate codec if you have an HD capable monitor.

As far as Premier Pro, I must admit that I don't know the software. I used a very early version of Premier on my 1st documentary, many years ago.
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Old May 19th, 2004, 10:39 PM   #11
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Will,
for the PC real time editing why do I need a 1394 hard drive ?? I have found a laptop with 2 internal 7200 rpm hard drives in Raid 0 or Raid 1 setup.I beleive that would be sufficient amount of speed !!

Frederic,
Yes I meant single G4 dual was a mistake...sorry...

And I heard that Premiere Pro is really a great editing software much better than the previous versions and really matching final cut pro performance.
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Old May 20th, 2004, 12:41 PM   #12
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Update QuickTime Movies on Lumierehd.com

Christopher,

I am glad you find the training movies usefull.

We've updated the page with 3 more movies:

http://lumierehd.com/workflow.php
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Old May 20th, 2004, 02:03 PM   #13
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Gabor,

If you found a laptop with 2 internal 7200rpm hard drives, then no, you don't need 1394 anything. I've never seen anything but HUGE laptops with that kind of hardware, but it sounds pretty sweet. Keep in mind, though, that an external drive may provide some extra portability (and something to accidentally leave at the hotel).

And for anyone who hasn't seen the new Premiere, I encourage you to check it out. Adobe dropped Mac support for Premiere (too much FCP competition) and rewrote it from scratch for WinXP exclusively. This unfortunately means no backward compatibility for ANY older premiere plug-ins, hardware, etc. (hence the new name, Premiere Pro). The big changes are in the video and audio pipelines. Video is all RT and exstensible; audio is all RT and uses routing (similar ProTools) and has DX and VST plug-in support. PPro also adds support for offline formats (with hooks for developers).

PPro doesn't match the full-box functionality of FCP, but it's still cheaper and has quite a bit of functionality from 3rd partys. So, I'd recommend trying both FCP and PPro before you make a decision.
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Old May 20th, 2004, 03:08 PM   #14
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Frederic,

I just noticed a "Version_11" folder on your "Footage" drive...can I try it???? :)

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Old May 20th, 2004, 03:14 PM   #15
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Soon...very soon.
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