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Old September 17th, 2004, 11:43 PM   #1
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TMPGEnc is the ticket to HD looking DVDs

Thanks guys for turning me on to TMPGEnc and their authoring software, I finally got around to making DVDs of my last 2 HD projects and I watched the DVDs in utter disbelief as ALL the digital artifact in the red and green colors were GONE and the picture quality rivals the HD masters .

I cant even begin to tell you how amazed I am at this software as compared to mainconcept in Vegas + DVD architect, I am almost ashamed of everything I have put out to this day
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Old November 9th, 2004, 03:13 PM   #2
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hi, do you think i could put out an hour long DVD of HD content with this software?
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Old November 9th, 2004, 04:00 PM   #3
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<<<-- Originally posted by Carl Arce : hi, do you think i could put out an hour long DVD of HD content with this software? -->>>

TMPGEnc 3 XPress is an encoder (as the name implies!!!), that is capable of importing HD (m2t or mpg) and transcoding video, prior to authoring (with another app) to a number of distibution formats including VCD, SVCD, DVD.

It includes some very nice adjustment filters that include a nicely featured noise reduction filter.

It does not create High Definition DVD, but will transcode HD video to DVD compliant video....

If you require transitions, effects, titles etc. etc...... you will need to use an NLE such as Vegas or Premiere Pro. You would then save the edited video as AVI before importing into TMPGEnc for transcoding.

TMPGEnc is one of the very few programs that is right up to date with all manner of things to do with HD etc.... and unlike software from the big players, it provides great functionality, ease of use and speed for a fraction of the price.

If you have a little time to try it and see, why not download the trial version and find out for yourself........
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Old November 9th, 2004, 05:02 PM   #4
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Steve.

thanks, but pegasys now has an editor and dvd authoring that can write to a two sided DVD.

I've already gone through the Premiere Pro, Aspect HD, and Encore route.

I've been reading how some have written true HD-DVD with the WMV9 and was wondering if TMPG was the way they did it?
And if they were able to do it for an hour long footage?
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Old November 9th, 2004, 08:40 PM   #5
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<<<-- Originally posted by Carl Arce : Steve.

thanks, but pegasys now has an editor and dvd authoring that can write to a two sided DVD.

I've already gone through the Premiere Pro, Aspect HD, and Encore route.

I've been reading how some have written true HD-DVD with the WMV9 and was wondering if TMPG was the way they did it?
And if they were able to do it for an hour long footage? -->>>

As noted elsewhere on this forum, there is apparently only one currently (just released) available WMV9 capable media player - apart from the Roku HD1000....well HD mpg and m2t in it's case.

There are no WMV9 DVD disc players to my knowledge. The VInc. WMV9 capable disc player will probably never see the light of day....

Of course you can write WMV9 files to a DVD.....but that doesn't mean there's anything other than a PC with a DVD drive that's able to play them.

HD-DVD is a totally different thing altogether, and WMV9 HD files shouldn't be confused with it.

Despite Pegasys putting dual-layer support in TMPGEnc DVD Author..... (which just means you can write less compressed back-ups of dual-layer DVDs, or store a lot more data) ...... there's still no way to write a HD level DVD with standard DVD player level support. To author a true HD-DVD disc you'll need at least two important things. Firstly, a HD-DVD compatible disc player and secondly, an encoder that will author to the HD-DVD disc compliant format..... Both of these things are coming, but they're not here just yet. It's also within the bounds of normal hardware practices that you'll also require a HD-DVD capable burner..... unless support for older DVD burners is possible.
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Old November 10th, 2004, 12:20 AM   #6
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Thanks for being so helpfull Steve.
Question: I use the Adobe package that includes Encore, PremPro, Audition. Any way I can get Encore to use TMPGEnc instead of MainConcept Mp2 or is it locked to your knowledge? Or do I just switch out the software, Encore for Xpress? If it really is that much better. Opinions wanted!
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Old November 10th, 2004, 01:15 AM   #7
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thanks again Steve,

Let me get this clear, the WMV9 discs are not true HD DVD, and even if they are an hour long file would be too big to fit on a 4gig DVD?

I've got another question for you, and anyone else out there using Aspect HD, Premeire Pro, and Encore; I've got these DVDs in SD (from the process above) that play on my DVD player but can also play on my computer with WMV9.

Is this common? I ask this because it doesn't work right away. If I pop in the DVD to my computer and try to play it in WMV, the player basically shuts down and disappears from the system. No lie, it is no longer detected in the device manager.

Now, when I reboot without the DVD in the player and the player is once again configured; I pop the DVD back in and play it using a another DVD player application, turn that off and double click the drive in 'My Computer', it opens in WMV10 menus and all.

The thing of it is, in WMV10 these DVDs are the best I've seen yet. Now, excuse me if I've sounded like an imbecile but what's going on here? Can this act be reproduced in safer manner?
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Old November 10th, 2004, 04:54 AM   #8
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The TMPGEnc encoder is indeed better than the Cinemacraft one
that comes with Vegas/DVDA/Premiere (although it is pretty good)
might even have surpassed CCE recently. The top of the line
encoder is/was Canopus ProCoder, but who knows, the latest
versions of TMPGEnc might even beat that?
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Old November 10th, 2004, 06:25 AM   #9
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<<<-- Originally posted by Carl Arce :

Let me get this clear, the WMV9 discs are not true HD DVD, and even if they are an hour long file would be too big to fit on a 4gig DVD?

I've got another question for you, and anyone else out there using Aspect HD, Premeire Pro, and Encore; I've got these DVDs in SD (from the process above) that play on my DVD player but can also play on my computer with WMV9.

-->>>

Now I'm beginning to understand what's going on.... OK, firstly: WMV9 is a type of media file developed by Microsoft to carry up to HD level video - generally 1280x720 at low enough bit-rate for internet distribution (1>5Mbit). Secondly; Microsofts' Windows Media Player (WMP) can play a large number of file types and media, including DVDs.....although like you I've found that it's 'flaky' when playing DVDs.

However, don't get the two totally different things confused - which is easier said than done in the digital world of acronyms.

I'm sure if you check the actual video data files on the DVDs you've made in Encore (open My Computer > select the DVD drive > right click > select Explore otherwise the DVD will want to play), you'll find that there are two folders - one called AUDIO_TS and the other, VIDEO_TS. In the VIDEO_TS folder you should find *.vob files, which are DVD compliant MPEG2 files. To run in a stand alone home DVD player these files must be 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). Any different to this and Encore - or any other DVD authoring software I'm aware of - will want to re-encode to DVD compliant before authoring.....

Ken. The work path that would make use of TMPGEnc 3 XPress' capabilities would be....
1. Edit the m2ts in Premiere Pro. i.e. trim/composite/title/transition/sfx etc. When ready, export the final clip/clips as AVI
2. Use TMPGEnc to encode the rendered/exported AVI to DVD compliant MPEG2 - adjust the bit-rate to the max for DVD - 8Mbit seems best with dual-pass and constant bit-rate set.
3. Use Encore to write the DVD compliant MPEG2 created by TMPGEnc to DVD with menus etc added....

BTW, an hour of HD MPEG2 either 1080 or 720 won't fit on a 4.7Gig DVD......720 gets close-ish.....
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Old November 10th, 2004, 06:36 AM   #10
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Steve ,
Are you familiar with Vegas? when you say render to AVI , are there specifics like uncompressed or any other settings that must be set?

I have used the HD 720p MPEG2 to transport settings but since I use Cineforms connect HD then edit in Vegas should I then do an uncompressed AVI render before taking it to TMPGE?
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Old November 10th, 2004, 08:42 AM   #11
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Steve/Carl: the Avel Linkplayer2 literature says it can play WMV and DivX HD files from a DVD, but apparently just as plain computer files rather than part of a fully authored DVD project. As far as I can tell this is the equivalent of the Bravo D3 player we heard so much about back in January, which never did come to market. In any case, it is now possible to record high-definition video to a standard DVD and play it back on an affordable consumer device which you can attach directly to your HDTV, so that's a big improvement over where we were at a month ago. Using the Windows Media format at bit rates of ~5-8 Mbps, you can fit the same amount of HD video on a disc that you could do with SD video, so figure up to 90 minutes or so at decent quality.

And if you use the WMV format at 720p resolution you can also play the same discs on most PCs sold in the past year or two with a current version of Windows Media player installed, although again it seems you have to play the file directly rather than using DVD menus. My brother and I have been downloading what few WMV HD files we can find with sample footage from the Sony HDR-FX1 camera, and at a typical bit rate of 5 Mbps these look very nice and play fine on everything including my laptop. Hence even though we don't yet have "true" HD-DVD players and probably won't for another year yet, we do have a practical way to encode and distribute HD video from HDV camcorders in a way which millions of people can enjoy today.
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Old November 10th, 2004, 06:08 PM   #12
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<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Paschke : Steve ,
Are you familiar with Vegas? when you say render to AVI , are there specifics like uncompressed or any other settings that must be set?

I have used the HD 720p MPEG2 to transport settings but since I use Cineforms connect HD then edit in Vegas should I then do an uncompressed AVI render before taking it to TMPGE? -->>>

I very rarely use any of the standard templates in Vegas' 'Render As' dialogue, except as starting points. So; yes, select AVI > Default template (uncompressed) > custom - then set frame rate and audio etc under the various tabs to your preference rather than the encoders'....

I suspect that Connect HD, while reportedly excellent for close to real time editing of multiple tracks, will not be compatible with TMPGEnc - unless you can make the codec available to TMPGEnc as an input format. You can always try it and see!!!

Don't forget a lot of this stuff is cutting-edge, so some experimentation is going to be required.... I've been writing FTA stuff recorded to Hard Disk from a VisionPlus DVBt HD card for almost a year now, as well as HD10u footage, and I still find I have to experiment and tweak settings etc. Let alone the changes in work-flow brought about by new plug-ins and programs being released at an ever increasing rate.

Kevin.... I indeed noticed the Avel Linkplayer which does look promising.

Just wondering whether you've done a direct comparison of m2t straight from either the FX1 or HD10 with WMV9 5>8Mbit renders of the same file. I'm sure you'll notice the compression artifacts in a direct comparison... I know I have, which is why I never liked posting clips of my HD10 stuff.....people who had no idea of what the original footage looked like just wrote the cam off on the strength of the WMV compression. The other prob for the FX1 is that WMV9 is really only a 720 format, so any 1080 stuff I've rendered as 1080 WMV9 (just 'sucking to see') doesn't like playing back....
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Old November 10th, 2004, 06:15 PM   #13
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TMPGEnc should be able to encode to HD if you change the profile, I forget to which....but as it seems the newest version you can not do this. At least I do not see the option to.
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Old November 10th, 2004, 09:21 PM   #14
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Steve: I haven't had an opportunity to compare to original HDV footage, but what I can do is compare Windows Media files at 720p to anything else I can do at standard resolution. As far as my brother and I are concerned the 720p looks really good compared to typical SD MPEG2 files, which is the main thing that matters to us. Can you tell me any reason why I shouldn't expect 720p WMV to look better than SD DVDs, and what specifically I can look for to see that for myself?

If I can get 720p encoding to look decent I wouldn't see any particular need to encode to 1080i for the foreseeable future, since as you say that is less likely to be playable on anything but the fastest computers. A year or two from now that may change, but 720p will always be less problematic than 1080i for output purposes because of the reduced number of pixels involved.
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Old November 11th, 2004, 06:12 AM   #15
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<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Shaw : Steve: I haven't had an opportunity to compare to original HDV footage, but what I can do is compare Windows Media files at 720p to anything else I can do at standard resolution. As far as my brother and I are concerned the 720p looks really good compared to typical SD MPEG2 files, which is the main thing that matters to us. Can you tell me any reason why I shouldn't expect 720p WMV to look better than SD DVDs, and what specifically I can look for to see that for myself?

If I can get 720p encoding to look decent I wouldn't see any particular need to encode to 1080i for the foreseeable future, since as you say that is less likely to be playable on anything but the fastest computers. A year or two from now that may change, but 720p will always be less problematic than 1080i for output purposes because of the reduced number of pixels involved. -->>>

I was only indicating that compared to the native m2t (mpg) 720p 19.3Mbit stream from the HD10u, 720p WMV9s of even 8Mbit showed tangible 'degeneration'. Without having the footage from the HD10, I would still have thought the 720p WMV9s to be superior to SD WMV9s however. The biggest problem for anything 1080 is that it's data rate and resolution aren't supported currently by any of the standard software players (apart from VLC) for playback, whereas, WinDVD, PowerDVD and WMP can handle the 720 stream without any problems.

You may find some HD-DVBt software that'll handle 1080 easily.....but most DVBt software is designed for capture rather than playback of captures...... So you're correct in stating that 720p is less problematic at the moment, and yes things are changing for 1080 - maybe even quicker than in a year or two.
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