HDV on a SD timeline? at DVinfo.net

Patrick Moreau · January 27th, 2005, 09:07 AM

Is it possible to use HDV footage from an FX1 and drop it on a SD timeline? What I am hoping is that I could stabilize shaky HDV footage and after a crop of 30% it would still be big enough to be full SD resolution on a SD timeline. Is this possible?

Chris Hurd · January 27th, 2005, 09:40 AM

Hi Patrick, I need to move this to our HDV editing boards -- are you Mac or PC?

Patrick Moreau · January 27th, 2005, 10:26 AM

Mac please Chris.

Chris Hurd · January 27th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Done! Hopefully somebody here can answer your question.

Dylan Pank · January 27th, 2005, 10:44 AM

Patrick, How are you capturing the HDV footage? Lumiere or HD card (eg Decklink)? And what software? I'm assuming FCP 4.5.

Patrick Moreau · January 27th, 2005, 11:23 AM

Honestly, I dont have the camera yet. Im looking at the sony FX1 and wondering if that would be an advantage. I like the idea of being able to stabilize HD resolution footage with after effects, import it into fnal cut pro 4.5HD and then crop it on a SD timeline so it looks like standard steady SD footage.

So, to better answer your question, I would want to use just the FX1 right into final cut pro 4.5HD, unless thats not possible...

Patrick

Frederic Lumiere · January 27th, 2005, 11:45 AM

Patrick,

It all depends what you intend to do with the footage.

If you are going to keep it in DV, then the best solution is to let the Sony HDV camera downconvert it for you. It does a gret job at it and you can import right into FCP this way.

If you are going to want any type of HD from it, then import with iMovie and use Media Manager to build a DV version of your project for realtime editing. Then you can onlining back to the AIC codec.

I just posted how to do it on this post:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38145

Frederic

Kevin Shaw · January 27th, 2005, 12:00 PM

For those who would like to do the same thing on PCs, some of the major editing packages will allow you to work in high-definition mode with HDV footage and then output to SD, so you should be able to zoom in as described and still get acceptable quality in the final output. User reports suggest that you can't zoom in as much as you might think based on the differences in resolution between HD and SD, but a zoom of 30% or so shouldn't be a problem.

Patrick Moreau · January 27th, 2005, 12:02 PM

Frederic, I think you missed what I was trying to get at.

Kevin

Thanks for the help, that was what I was trying to figure out.

Patrick

Dylan Pank · January 28th, 2005, 05:44 AM

At present FCP can't take HDV footage directly, you either need Frederic's software or iMovieHD. You should be able to do the zoom/crop thing, but not in real time I'm guessing, unless you have a very powerful machine.

Also I don't find FCP handles scaling too well, so such things might be ebtter done in After effetcs, though you could do the cropping and scaling in very rough form on FCP at DV resolution then use Automatic Duck Pro to import the necessary shots into After Effects.

Patrick Moreau · January 28th, 2005, 07:23 AM

Thanks for the info Dylan. As I mentioned, I'm not looking for exactly how you would do it, I just thought it would be an advantage to SD projects when you had an hd camera which we are looking at. When we actually get it, thats when I can do some tests in final cut pro and after effects and repost if it doesn't seem to work, I just wnated ot make sure that theorertically there shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks again.

Dylan Pank · January 28th, 2005, 08:07 AM

Well, if it's all hypothetical, like Kevin, I assume zoomed-in HDV to a pixel for pixel match with DV footage would not look as sharp as the same frame of original DV. The lenses would introduce some softness at those resolutions, or at least the chromatic abberations would be enlarged, and any MPEG artifacts (and there will be SOME) would be more obvious. However 30% probably would probably be OK.

However, regarding stabalizing shaky footage. Bear in mind that while your footage would be stable, unless you're shooting at very high shutter speeds, any shakes would introduce motion blur that stabilization would not remove. When I've tried this, I've found the effect so distracting I prefer to leave the camera shaky. Fight Club has a shot that deliberately uses this.

January 27th, 2005, 09:07 AM	#1
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	HDV on a SD timeline? Is it possible to use HDV footage from an FX1 and drop it on a SD timeline? What I am hoping is that I could stabilize shaky HDV footage and after a crop of 30% it would still be big enough to be full SD resolution on a SD timeline. Is this possible?

January 27th, 2005, 09:40 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Patrick, I need to move this to our HDV editing boards -- are you Mac or PC? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 27th, 2005, 10:37 AM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Done! Hopefully somebody here can answer your question. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 27th, 2005, 10:26 AM	#3
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Mac please Chris.

January 27th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#5
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Patrick, How are you capturing the HDV footage? Lumiere or HD card (eg Decklink)? And what software? I'm assuming FCP 4.5.

January 27th, 2005, 11:23 AM	#6
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Honestly, I dont have the camera yet. Im looking at the sony FX1 and wondering if that would be an advantage. I like the idea of being able to stabilize HD resolution footage with after effects, import it into fnal cut pro 4.5HD and then crop it on a SD timeline so it looks like standard steady SD footage. So, to better answer your question, I would want to use just the FX1 right into final cut pro 4.5HD, unless thats not possible... Patrick

January 27th, 2005, 11:45 AM	#7
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Patrick, It all depends what you intend to do with the footage. If you are going to keep it in DV, then the best solution is to let the Sony HDV camera downconvert it for you. It does a gret job at it and you can import right into FCP this way. If you are going to want any type of HD from it, then import with iMovie and use Media Manager to build a DV version of your project for realtime editing. Then you can onlining back to the AIC codec. I just posted how to do it on this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38145 Frederic

January 27th, 2005, 12:00 PM	#8
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	For those who would like to do the same thing on PCs, some of the major editing packages will allow you to work in high-definition mode with HDV footage and then output to SD, so you should be able to zoom in as described and still get acceptable quality in the final output. User reports suggest that you can't zoom in as much as you might think based on the differences in resolution between HD and SD, but a zoom of 30% or so shouldn't be a problem.

January 27th, 2005, 12:02 PM	#9
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Frederic, I think you missed what I was trying to get at. Kevin Thanks for the help, that was what I was trying to figure out. Patrick

January 28th, 2005, 05:44 AM	#10
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	At present FCP can't take HDV footage directly, you either need Frederic's software or iMovieHD. You should be able to do the zoom/crop thing, but not in real time I'm guessing, unless you have a very powerful machine. Also I don't find FCP handles scaling too well, so such things might be ebtter done in After effetcs, though you could do the cropping and scaling in very rough form on FCP at DV resolution then use Automatic Duck Pro to import the necessary shots into After Effects.

January 28th, 2005, 07:23 AM	#11
Patrick Moreau Still Motion Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,186	Thanks for the info Dylan. As I mentioned, I'm not looking for exactly how you would do it, I just thought it would be an advantage to SD projects when you had an hd camera which we are looking at. When we actually get it, thats when I can do some tests in final cut pro and after effects and repost if it doesn't seem to work, I just wnated ot make sure that theorertically there shouldn't be a problem. Thanks again.

January 28th, 2005, 08:07 AM	#12
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Well, if it's all hypothetical, like Kevin, I assume zoomed-in HDV to a pixel for pixel match with DV footage would not look as sharp as the same frame of original DV. The lenses would introduce some softness at those resolutions, or at least the chromatic abberations would be enlarged, and any MPEG artifacts (and there will be SOME) would be more obvious. However 30% probably would probably be OK. However, regarding stabalizing shaky footage. Bear in mind that while your footage would be stable, unless you're shooting at very high shutter speeds, any shakes would introduce motion blur that stabilization would not remove. When I've tried this, I've found the effect so distracting I prefer to leave the camera shaky. Fight Club has a shot that deliberately uses this.