Converting PAL to NTSC for Broadcast at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

High Definition Video Editing Solutions
For all HD formats including HDV, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD and others.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 8th, 2005, 11:09 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 67
Converting PAL to NTSC for Broadcast

I am considering purchasing the Sony Z1U and would like to know more about converting its PAL footage to NTSC for television purposes. I am in Los Angeles. I have access to Final Cut Pro 5, After Effects, and Magic Bullet.

I'm trying to achieve a 24P look without using an SD camera and the Sony at 50i + Magic Bullet software looks like a good option.

TIA
Javier Urena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2005, 10:19 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 67
Anybody?

Did I post in the wrong forum?
Javier Urena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2005, 10:42 AM   #3
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
Shhot 50i and de-interlace (or shoot CF25), and save out your edit as a non-HDV high def movie, conform in cinema tools to 23.98fps, and there you have a slightly slow, but good looking 24p master for HD. If you need to add pulldown to get to 60i, you can use my Standards Converter plugin, or you could go straight out over SDI to 24p HDCAM.

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2005, 08:27 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress
Shhot 50i and de-interlace (or shoot CF25), and save out your edit as a non-HDV high def movie, conform in cinema tools to 23.98fps, and there you have a slightly slow, but good looking 24p master for HD.
[1] Also for film-out?

[2] And regarding to PC world?

[3] And to DVCPRO-HD? - We are considering to buy a HVX, only we don't know yet if PAL or NTSC...that's why this thread or the advices from technical experts like you, are/will be important to us.

[4] Without any other post-production step?

[5] Without any problems or after-effects?

[6] And concerning to sound pitch?

Thanks in advance!
And Congrats for you work (and your opinions in foruns like this, too) - indeed!
I've been already in your website and I appreciated your products. One problem: Mac. We need a PC basis solution, less expensive. Unless, you're thinking to develop a PC solution, do you?

Last edited by Emanuel Costa; November 9th, 2005 at 11:03 PM.
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2005, 11:45 AM   #5
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
1) Sure. One project at least, that I'm consulting on is going out to film via this workflow.

2) Conforming should be doable in any PC NLE also.

3) For DVCproHD, shooting 720p24 or 1080p24 should be fine. We don't know yet if there will be any PAL 1080p25 advantage or not.

6) Pitch is only an issue in a PAL workflow, and for users of the Z1 say, it's worth it in terms of picture. Even shooting 720p24 or 1080p24 will give pitch issues as video is 23.98fps and film is 24.00fps.

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 12:15 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
4) ?

5) ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress
6) Pitch is only an issue in a PAL workflow, and for users of the Z1 say, it's worth it in terms of picture. Even shooting 720p24 or 1080p24 will give pitch issues as video is 23.98fps and film is 24.00fps.
But also it is an issue in a conversion 1080p24 or 23.98fps -> PAL (slowdown) or 25p -> 24fps (speed-up). What is the better option in terms of audio pitch for a film-out project but also a PAL DVD release?

last but not least:
7) Regarding your products, do you consider a PC option and not only a FCP basis solution? If not, what are our similar possibilities in a PC basis online NLE (1080p25 <-> 1080p24). I know PC it's not your field, maybe (or not yet), but what do you suggest?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Emanuel Costa; November 11th, 2005 at 01:22 AM.
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 12:18 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress
Shhot 50i and de-interlace (or shoot CF25), and save out your edit as a non-HDV high def movie, conform in cinema tools to 23.98fps, and there you have a slightly slow, but good looking 24p master for HD. If you need to add pulldown to get to 60i, you can use my Standards Converter plugin, or you could go straight out over SDI to 24p HDCAM.

Graeme
Thank you Graeme.
Javier Urena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 12:56 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Javier, will you buy the Sony Z1U in order to shoot PAL footage -> NTSC for television purposes? Do you prefer (HDV) CF25 instead of Panasonic HVX (DVCPRO-HD) 24p/60i?

Last edited by Emanuel Costa; November 11th, 2005 at 01:54 AM.
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 07:13 AM   #9
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
The options are shoot 24p and speed up to 25p for the PAL release, or shoot 25p and slow down for the 24p release. Either way there's a pitch change - I'd suggest just living with it, as it gives you the best picture, and people in the UK are used to watching a 24fps movie at the cinema, and then watching the 25p version on DVD which is a little shorter....

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 04:29 PM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress
The options are shoot 24p and speed up to 25p for the PAL release, or shoot 25p and slow down for the 24p release. Either way there's a pitch change - I'd suggest just living with it, as it gives you the best picture, and people in the UK are used to watching a 24fps movie at the cinema, and then watching the 25p version on DVD which is a little shorter....

Graeme
Yes, we already know that...but thanks anyway for your answer.

The question is what is the better option?

Each one has a different effect, as we know, and, as you well said, we must live with it, so if we know that we have a HD project with two goals (50%/50%) - big screen (film-out & digital) & DVD release (mostly PAL but also NTSC) - which of them is the suitable option?*

a) in terms of audio pitch;
b) and if the 24p/60i version is better than 25p/50i 'cause more film-out suitable (without frame conversion) or/and regarding sound pitch suitable, the 25p/50i is announced with two advantages: HVX bit rate of 100 megabits @ 1080p25 versus 80 bits @ 1080/24p and a resolution advantage (1440x1080 versus 1280x1080 @ DVCPRO HD), isn't it?

b1) Will it be the "bit rate" a real advantage in terms of a "better picture"?

b2) I know that "resolution" is not the same than "definition" but will it be relevant this resolution difference more than a probably pitch advantage? (if we consider speed-up more attractive than slowdown)

Thanks in advance!

*if we only can shoot with a single camera...
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 04:33 PM   #11
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
Until I get a HVX200 in my hands I can't tell, and the PAL version is still later on the horizon. PAL should look better, but until we test, who knows?

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 06:13 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Thanks Graeme, I understand your point but please I beg your understanding for my real concern...


x)

...about the (sound) pitch issue...the 24p -> 25p will it be more attractive (speed-up) than the opposite (slowdown)?

Or that it's not noticeable and 24p -> 25p is just more common because it was implemented as a universal frame format (conversion*)?

So, 25p/50i -> 24p (for film-out) will it be perfect also so good than the "true-method-tested" of 24fps -> PAL?


* 24fps for film release & 25fps for PAL


xx)

And about the picture?... Will it be the same "thing" (the same results)? Without any noticeable degradation?



[Thanks again for your attention!]
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 06:35 PM   #13
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
Through history, it's been done both ways. Some UK shows, shot on 35mm film were shot at 25fps and slowed the the US audience, whereas Uk viewers watched slightly sped up Flintstones. The 4% is not noticible if you dont' have access to a direct comparison. It works both ways. I'd just pick whichever is easiest for you.... or whichever fits your largest market.

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 07:30 PM   #14
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 31
Thanks Graeme but concerning your products - good demos! - I'd like a purchase but in a PC basis, will it be possible in the near future?
Emanuel Costa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2005, 09:23 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Katoomba NSW Australia
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel Costa
Thanks Graeme but concerning your products - good demos! - I'd like a purchase but in a PC basis, will it be possible in the near future?
I know you've asked Graeme - and I hope he doesn't mind my interjecting at this point... However, there's plenty of PC options as far as PAL<NTSC>PAL conversion is concerned.

Some are integrated into NLE's such as Vegas, while there are add-ins such as Gearshift for Vegas that automate the process and apply enhancements for the conversion if using progressive or interlaced material.

Stand alone utilities for HDV/HD video - such as Cineform's AspectHD and ConnectHD, allow various conversions also.

For Javier; who made the initial post, why not let the Z1 do the conversion for you?!! That's one of the in-built capabilities of the camcorder after all...

As for the HVX - It's not even out yet, so expecting any software of being able to deal with it's particular video is a little premature; however, it's no different with any new release camcorder that extends the capabilities of software and hardware. Support should appear almost over-night...

Don't get so frantic about something like this being the "Deal Breaker" issue! If you want the quality and clarity of HD, with the promise of providing content for yourself and others that has previously only been reserved for the priviliged few... then go for the Z1, because it's proven itself as a serious piece of hardware with maturing software support. If you truly need what the HVX offers over and above the Z1 (whilst putting up with the ommissions!!), then wait till it hits the streets...

Mountain outta a Mole hill....
Steve Crisdale is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:08 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network