Premiere Pro or Final Cut Pro? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

High Definition Video Editing Solutions
For all HD formats including HDV, HDCAM, DVCPRO HD and others.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 25th, 2007, 07:49 PM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Andover, Ma
Posts: 102
Premiere Pro or Final Cut Pro?

So far I have been using Premiere 6.5 and After Effects 6.0 for SD editing, and all my stations are still run on Windows 2000 (antique?) systems.....
The thing is: these old systems satisfy my SD editing, I never felt the need to upgrade until recently when I upgraded my camera to HDV, so I feel the urge to get 2 workstations for HD only. Since I am a Windows guy (started 3d animation a dozen years ago with Power Animator on SGI Indy Machines, later to Maya on Windows NT4), I just feel more comfortable with Windows. But it seems that more people are using FCP. Now I have the chance to get new Macs, I just wonder if FCP really is more powerful than Adobe system? Do I have to force myself to swith to Mac in order to use FCP? Thanks for any input.....
Juni Zhao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 08:18 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
Well you will have to go MAC if you want to run FCP, yes. It will not run on a PC.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Andover, Ma
Posts: 102
I know. I mean, which is more powerful, premiere or fcp?
Juni Zhao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 09:11 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 215
From an admitedly prejudiced standpoint, I would say that you would not be "forced" to switch to a Mac, rather that you "get" to switch to a Mac.

I used PC at work and Mac at home. My boss told me when I was first hired that a Mac would never enter our doors. Well, that changed this January when it was decided it was time I had a new computer. Much to my surprise (and delight!) they bought a Mac Pro.

Truth be told I can't tell you much about Premiere, since at the time I was looking for an NLE Adobe had stopped supporting Macintosh. This made my decision much easier and I have to say that I LOVE using FCP.

Regardless of personal opinion, it is interesting to note that Adobe saw just what they were losing (and likely have lost for good!) and has only very recently reintroduced Premier for the Macintosh platform. FCP has indeed chased them hard and more than given them a run for their money!
Frank Simpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brookline, MA
Posts: 1,447
Hahaha, nice one, Frank!

I have a PC and I'd go with FCP; Apple really knows a thing or two about UI design. The latest Final Cut Suite looks wicked good, though After Effects CS3 ain't bad either.

I edit with Sony Vegas before you ask.
Emre Safak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Visalia, California
Posts: 41
Juni,

If you have a choice, go with Avid! What other programs do you use? Do these programs work well together? It really depends on your workflow. FCP or Premiere will basically do the same job but they themselves are not the end all be all. What camera are you using? Is the camera supported by the editing app? Are you using After Effects, Maya? There are a lot of questions that need to be answered before you decide wether you choose Adobe or FCS. FCP will will be the first to support the RED camera. Adobe is the first to do Blu-ray. I personnally use Adobe CS3, but I feel it is right for my workflow. Adobe may not be right for you. My suggestion is to evalurate your workflow, then go from there.
Adam Beck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25th, 2007, 11:57 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,205
Or get one of each?
Jim Andrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 01:19 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Long, wordy and probably boring response.

I'm also kinda a FCP partisan, having been with it since 1.0.

That said, it might be sensible to consider this.

Why is FCP and Studio not just still "hanging around", but thriving?

On the face, it had virtually EVERYTHING stacked against it's success.

It runs on an OS that has a fractional market share. It runs on hardware, that if you're already a PC user, you MUST switch to in order to run it.

And in spite of both those "should be fatal" market disadvantages - it's managed to attract more than 700,000 worldwide PAID seats. And nobody knows how many more unpaid seats.

I personally think the ONLY thing that explains it's success is because it's really just that good.

There are certainly a handful of other VERY good NLE programs. Premier, Vegas, Avid - they all have loyal followings with good reason.

But here's my personal take on them. Your mileage may vary.

Vegas may be and certainly SHOULD be every bit as good as FCP. But the Sony corp infastructure has NEVER done software well. Never. Which is a pitty since Vegas was always so amazingly strong in audio. A class act, but don't bet on it's future in a company where they can make 10 times the money selling a plasma screen as they do with any software package. Vegas is always going to be a stepchild in the giant Sony corporate universe.

Premier is also a quality program and unlike Sony, Adobe 'gets" software. The last rev of Premier was excellent. Unfortunately their corporate view killed the Premier momentum the moment they left the Mac platform and went all PC. Dropping mac development, in hindsight, was a terribly poor business decision, because even tho they were still developing the software, the innovation and stability level started to mirror the wider PC hardware world. So, for a long time, Premier was just an OK software program running on an OS fractionalized into Windows home variants, XP, etc. and on hardware that the average buyer had to work too damn hard to properly configure for video. Those decisions left the robust and hungry "below Avid" market entirely to FCP. Which GLADLY gobbled it up. Now nobody I know wants to move back since a huge market slice is already experienced in, and comfortably happy with FCP. Whoops.

Avid is Avid. Their history has always been "We're AVID. we'll tell you how to buy, use and equip your computers to use our stuff and if you don't, F-you." That might have been a viable view back when NLEs were developing and trouble prone. Now it's insane. They still think the badge is enough. It's NOT. Not in this universe of choices. They are probably STILL the best choice if you wallow in the Hollywood trough of unlimited funds/budgets, but look around, the really great stuff below the Hollywood level (and increasingly AT the Hollywood level) is increasingly coming from the smart and talented young men and women who OWN their tools. Not those who toil in the cathode ray ghettos pushing buttons on on someone elses hardware. The hot creative shops - ad agencys - indy film folks - and now even the corporate, government, and industrial users in creative areas - mostly own and use FCP. Pulled along by a smarter breed of managers who finally seem to be "getting" the fact that forcing creative people to use expensive tools exclusively at work for 8 hours then go away and not continue to grow, is a dumber plan than giving them tools they can afford to both work with with AND live with keeping their enthusiasm and learning going.

In my analysis, THAT's why FCP is kicking butt. You can own it. You can live with it. It's grown and expanded and Apple has understood the importance of both the hardware/software connection AND human user side like no other company.

For FCP to have succeeded with all that stacked against it, it, IMO had to be that much BETTER than the competition. Particularly in terms of constant innovation. And I think it has been. That's why it's still going strong.

That's been my experience, for what it's worth.

My 2 cents anyway.

YMMV.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 03:43 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,750
In terms of what you can do effects-wise, After Effects is really really strong. There's lots of stuff you can do in AE. Most broadcast design work is done in AE. From what I've heard about Motion, it's not as powerful but more user-friendly.

IMO Final Cut has a lot of market share because (in no particular order):
A- Premiere 6.5 and its previous incarnations were extremely buggy. The interface was also tedious... you take about twice as many keystrokes/clicks to do tasks.
B- Apple is really good at marketing. Final Cut has the benefit of some mid/high-end work being done on it. For example, it is a really cheap uncompressed HD editing solution. And a handful of Hollywood films are cut on it.

2- Final Cut by itself is not powerful. It can't do advanced audio, can't do paint well, is ok for compositing, is mediocre at color correction. The other applications in the suite fill in these gaps, mostly. Motion (from what I've heard) is not nearly as powerful as AE.

3- IMO, learning OS X is pretty easy. There are just some annoyances (crtl and alt aren't crtl and alt) and some pitfalls to watch out for (Mac file system is different).

4- Personally I prefer Sony Vegas because you can get work done quickly inside it. I've been using FCP a lot, but still prefer Vegas slightly. I haven't used Premiere Pro that much; been burned by Premiere 6.5 bugs.

5- IMO, what should drive your decision is what formats you shoot on and what type of work you do. Pick the system that gets work done the fastest for you.

Quote:
Vegas may be and certainly SHOULD be every bit as good as FCP. But the Sony corp infastructure has NEVER done software well. Never. Which is a pitty since Vegas was always so amazingly strong in audio. A class act, but don't bet on it's future in a company where they can make 10 times the money selling a plasma screen as they do with any software package. Vegas is always going to be a stepchild in the giant Sony corporate universe.
Sony has many divisions that don't always talk to one another (e.g. some Sony computers come bundled with Premiere). I wouldn't assume that Sony Creative Software (formerly Sony Madison Software) behaves like other parts of Sony.
Glenn Chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 09:15 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/USA
Posts: 2,507
It should be an easy decision, but it's not

Juni,

since you're admittedly a PC person, and unless you're fed up with Windows, you should stay with Windows and upgrade to the new Adobe suite. You know the basics of Premiere and AE and unless you lived under a rock for the last few years, you know you will be delighted by the interface of the latest suite.

And since no one mentioned it yet, I will: think integration. Think moving your project from one application to another for audio work, special effects, DVD creation, etc.

As mentioned above, Adobe woke up and is developing good software. You can even run it on a Mac if you wish (but sounds like you're happy with PC stability).

Bottom line is (would be for me) if there is something you can't do in Adobe, then go FCP - but I doubt it. Unfortunately you can't download a trial version of FCP and run in on a PC, you have to buy a Mac for that. This would be the ultimate test for you... try it and love it or hate it...

To switch just because x number of people are using any particular software, would not be wise IMO.
__________________
Ervin Farkas, CDVS
Certified Legal Videographer
Ervin Farkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
Hi Juni,

I use Premiere Pro 1.5 and recently 2.0, and I also used Final Cut Pro.
Both have their advantages.
I should go with the one that you feel best with.

Premiere:
- has GREAT integration with Encore, After Effects, Audition and Photoshop!
Very important!
- has pretty powerfull effect tools and many options!
- real time playback (if I'm not mistaken)
- I do hate about Premiere pro, that if you want all the audio unlinked from the video, you have to do it piece by piece, while in FCP, it's only one button away for your complete timeline.

Final Cut Pro:
- has more high end options (RED, uncompressed HD, Betacam,...)
- I have the feeling, once you get used to it, it works a bit faster
- don't know enough about computers, could be this is purely dependent on your hardware, but if I do effects on my Premiere timeline, I immediately can see the results, even if I have to render afterwards. With FCP, even a fade and black bars for widescreen had to be rendered first before I could see them (or maybe that was only for the external monitor, could be, was at film school, don't remember too well).

Bottom Line: you really can't go wrong with either, check what your needs are, and then upgrade to what you feel is best.
My opinion is: if you feel at ease with PC, why change?
There is also the Vegas option, but I don't have experience with it.
And if you DO would go for the FCP option: it's a fantastic program also ;-)
Most important thing: first check your needs! With what format/camera will you work now? And in the future?
What WILL YOU NEED?
Can both platforms suffice for you?
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 01:17 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere View Post
I do hate about Premiere pro, that if you want all the audio unlinked from the video, you have to do it piece by piece, while in FCP, it's only one button away for your complete timeline.
True, but there is a way around it; alt-select all the audio clips you want to unlink, rightclick on one of the audioclips, uncheck "enable".
Then you can, or just press "delete" to clear all audio clips, or cut and past to move the audio clips further down the timeline for later or other use, you only have to check enable again.

I know it's not the easiest way but it works.

and Juni, if you feel comfortable with premiere and windows and if it does what you want why change? One remark though, I never worked with version 6.5 but I think you might be in for a surprise. I have heared other 6.5 users complain when they switched to 1.5 or 2 that the interface and way of editing was developed in a different way and that it took them some time getting used to.

I would download a trial of cs3 and see how it works for you.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 01:19 PM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
True, but there is a way around it; alt-select all the audio clips you want to unlink, rightclick on one of the audioclips, uncheck "enable".
Then you can, or just press "delete" to clear all audio clips, or cut and past to move the audio clips further down the timeline for later or other use, you only have to check enable again.

I know it's not the easiest way but it works.
Thanks for the tip!
(still not as easy as in FCP, but better then doing it one by one ;-))
Mathieu Ghekiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 01:30 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,488
I used to be a big Mac fan but moved away from them a few years ago for various reasons, and haven't found a compelling reason to buy a Mac since. However, with the recent option to buy an Intel-based Mac and run both Mac and Windows software well on one computer, today's Macs are very tempting - and I know several people who are using them to run Windows-based video production software (plus some Mac stuff).

Final Cut has a great reputation but has been slow to adopt some significant features, with the latest oversight being lack of Blu-ray authoring support in the new version of Final Cut Studio. I'd guess that Apple is busy working on that and will release it when they feel it's good and ready, but until then some Final Cut users are buying the latest Adobe suite just to get Blu-ray support. Bottom line is that there's no one right solution for everyone, but it's hard to go wrong these days with any good Mac or PC computer and any decent video production package. If you want to 'play it safe' just buy a newer PC and an upgrade to your Adobe software; if you want to experiment with Mac software buy a Mac...

P.S. My favorite editing application for working with HDV material is Edius, but I'm looking at Adobe for the Blu-ray support.
Kevin Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2007, 04:13 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: North Andover, Ma
Posts: 102
I can't thank you more for your generous help, and I read every single reply carefully. I think I will stay with PC, the reasons are:

1) I want to keep Adobe, coz I am so familiar with Adobe, for 10 years on daily basis, I have dealt with Adobe programs.

2) I like Windows, coz this is the only operating system I have used for 14 years, besides SGI Unix in early time. I can do all networking, system repair, and maintenance by myself.

3) There are so many third party utility programs that are only compatible with PC, I have more than a dozen of them, for example, batch file renaming, ReaConverter (for batch image conversion), Cinema Craft Encoder Premiere plug-in, DVD Maestro, etc....

4) I already have 4 Win2000 PCs, if I get mac I may bump into some difficulties moving files around in the network.

The reason I asked this question in the first place is: People I come across always boast that they have Macs, and use FCP, their pride in Mac makes me wonder if there is a lot more steam in Mac than PC, I feel like an amateur stuck with inferior PC when I see the way they talk about Mac :-)
But now, I think it's more a preference thing than a better-worse matter.
But more input is welcome....
Juni Zhao is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Cross-Platform Post Production Solutions > High Definition Video Editing Solutions

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:38 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network