Pan Tilt head from England-Anyone at DVinfo.net

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Old March 17th, 2009, 12:51 PM   #1
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Pan Tilt head from England-Anyone

this company is making what seems to be a fairly priced pan tilt head. They sell it on-line and on ebay but have a dismal feedback rating. Does anyone from the UK know these people or their gear?
Studio and Stage Online Shop
Brian
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Old March 21st, 2009, 08:37 AM   #2
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Fluid head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Murphy View Post
this company is making what seems to be a fairly priced pan tilt head. They sell it on-line and on ebay but have a dismal feedback rating. Does anyone from the UK know these people or their gear?
Studio and Stage Online Shop
Brian
Looks like they re using Windshield Wiper motors they would be noisy and limited control of speed I have the Camera Turret and it runs for 1700 dollars but is well worth it. I have built a fluid head that uses no power and works more like a tripod head it is as fast or slow as you move the lever on the operator end.

see here

CD Video Productions Hydraulic Head

DaNc
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Old March 21st, 2009, 03:20 PM   #3
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I love the hydraulic head! There is a company that makes a jib the Advanta-Jib lite called Dykortek and the builder uses hydraulics for the tilt and cable for the pan. He is located not far from you. Nice guy, but prices are in US dollars I found out after I spoke with him. I wanted to buy one last summer but other expenses got in the way. And now as you know with our Canadian dollar low it is out of reach for the time being. I like the Kessler and it is affordable and I like the different options with it. I have others who have told me the Turret is a good head for the money but I wanted to look at other options first and saw this one. Your big crane looks awesome and I bet it flys well too. Custom build, yours?
They have a horrible feedback rating on Ebay and when I wrote to ask about this I was told it was due to a previous owner etc. and they wee selling to many big producers like the BBC and government. I was told they would send me the name of a guy in the USA who bought a few units (in Ohio) and he would provide references. But no news from him or them since. I did hear from a fellow member from DVInfo who had bought one of their units and said they were indeed using wirper motors from the junk yard and that he had to fight to get a refund for what was in his opinion a noisy piece of junk which he says he threw in the trash.
Did you build your Hydraulic head? I like not having to use power/batteries. I also looked at the heads at Servocity.com but from the YouTube stuff I have seen with them they seem very noisy. I guess I am spoiled having directed so many cooking shows with Jimmy Jibs that are great tools and quiet. Just big and expensive to transport. I have to fly with my jib and this week it will be going to Barbados.
Brian
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Last edited by Brian Murphy; March 21st, 2009 at 05:03 PM. Reason: errors and revelations
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Old March 22nd, 2009, 12:12 PM   #4
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Several Answers ..... none good. Stay Away is my advice!

Studio and Stage Online Shop

My research into options for a power head for my Kessler Crane has been an interesting one and I have gotten a great deal of excellent advice based on experience from several crane owners. Dan and others have highly recommended the Turret and I will go with the PT20 when I return from my next shoot. The Bescor will be fine for this shoot since I only need to reposition the head and not use it for moving shots.

My interest in the Studio and Stage Online Shop's motorized head lead me to do some basic research and post questions as most of us do when spending money on gear and on a piece of gear that you don't hear about on the groups or from other folks in the biz.
I contacted them several times and got several responses. All of the answers included how they had been wronged on ebay by a nasty group of people who were out to get them. I didn't really need the details of the story but was willing to give them an opportunity to set the record straight and sell me a head when that was accomplished.
I asked for info about noise level of the motors and was told I would hear from a sound engineer with specs.
Never happened. Just someone else telling me they are quiet motors. Right....
I was quoted one price in an email, found another lower one on the ebay site "Buy it now" and yet another price on their home page. The price was for exactly the same equipment not a variation I was sure to check this out. They admitted to "bad math"
Several people said they were wiper motors and one person who claimed to have bought a head told me they were used motors from a junk yard.
This too was denied by James Warrington from the company, who also said they were very quiet and there was a conspiracy that was giving them a bad name:
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"We admit that the previous owners and operators of this name had a few problems. However they traded honestly and fairly. Its amazing how people hide behind internet anonymity. You will find that the detractors are a small group who are linked and very unrepresentative of this businesses output. As far as I am aware we have never had one of these heads returned for refund."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suggested to Mr. Warrington that perhaps they would be interested in letting me do a review of the head. They could send one, I would put it on the crane do tests and shots and video. If it was up to snuff I would buy it. If not I would send it back.
He rejected this offer:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We sell enough of these here and overseas to happy and satisfied customer without any assistance from yourself. Given your pre conceived impression s about us we will not be supplying you as you suggest.
Therefore end of conversation
Regards
James Warrington"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in my final email to him I again mentioned that I was not looking for a free head and I found it odd I had never heard from the buyer in the USA who had bought several of their units. I also asked why there was no video of the heads actually working on the site.
I got an email in return i will spare you all the details since they include the names of people who I don't know and don't wish to publish. Mr.Warrington suggested that my request to do an evaluation of one of their heads was not going to happen, he eluded that it was a ploy by me to get a free head. Nonsense. With the kind of feedback and reputation they have I think a fair evaluation in lieu of references,video and reasonable explanations serves to help his company.But his final words on "trust" are the clincher for me:
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"I’m sorry if you take offence but as stated we are not prepared to trust someone who we know nothing about
Our product is good…we sell to satisfied professional users some on a repeat basis and stand by our quality statements"
Regards
James Warrington
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He told me they sell enough of these heads in the European market and they don't need North American sales or my assistance.
My advice is STAY AWAY! Every other builder and seller has references and video. That the videos take up too much space is nonsense. YouTube? Vimeo and how many other places? Not to mention the low cost of storage and bandwidth.
I too, am not prepared to trust this company or product, because what I do know is not good!

Brian
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Old March 29th, 2009, 09:59 AM   #5
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I was recently in the market for a motorised pan & tilt head in the budget price range. I looked around & eventually ordered from B. Hague & Co. Ltd. in Nottingham in the UK. The underslung version at under 300 pounds including taxes is good value, quiet & works well. I don't know how robust it will be with a lot of use but for the price I am happy. B. Hague & Co. Ltd Pan & Tilt Power Heads

I wouldn't even consider ordering from 'Studio and Stage Online Shop' as there is no address on their web site & the only means of contact is via email or a mobile telephone number.

Cheers

Nigel
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Old March 29th, 2009, 12:58 PM   #6
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Thanks Nigel,
I have recently emailed Hague and they seem great. I am also interested in their ladder dolly as well.
Cheers
Brian
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Old April 15th, 2009, 11:01 PM   #7
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Hydraulic Head

I know John I have done some work with him and played with his crane once. His is only a hydraulic tilt and a cable pan The one I built is Hydraulic both ways pan and tilt. Also Johns tilts is limited where mine will tilt 180 degrees or even 360 if I build it that way. It can be used off of the gib so that one operator can operate the jib and another can operate the pan and tilt. Even better if you have a camera in a dangerous area or even a explosive area(camera in a explostion proof case) you could use my head as it is fully hydraulic and no electrical spark to triger a fire. Yes I built the Jib crane as well can go from a short 6 foot to 21 feet in length the shorty is good for indoor shots and studio work if you mount a head on it.
see this video entirely shot with a jib cran in the short mode no tripoded camera used at all

Namac Industries Inc., Hardwood Floor and Laminate Floor Care System, Products and Maintenance

I have shot a couple cooking shows (Pilots) seems everyone want to do a cooking show they think it is easy just point and shoot lighting whats that microphone why do we need one we have one on the camera. :)

Been there done that

DaNc




Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Murphy View Post
I love the hydraulic head! There is a company that makes a jib the Advanta-Jib lite called Dykortek and the builder uses hydraulics for the tilt and cable for the pan. He is located not far from you. Nice guy, but prices are in US dollars I found out after I spoke with him. I wanted to buy one last summer but other expenses got in the way. And now as you know with our Canadian dollar low it is out of reach for the time being. I like the Kessler and it is affordable and I like the different options with it. I have others who have told me the Turret is a good head for the money but I wanted to look at other options first and saw this one. Your big crane looks awesome and I bet it flys well too. Custom build, yours?
They have a horrible feedback rating on Ebay and when I wrote to ask about this I was told it was due to a previous owner etc. and they wee selling to many big producers like the BBC and government. I was told they would send me the name of a guy in the USA who bought a few units (in Ohio) and he would provide references. But no news from him or them since. I did hear from a fellow member from DVInfo who had bought one of their units and said they were indeed using wirper motors from the junk yard and that he had to fight to get a refund for what was in his opinion a noisy piece of junk which he says he threw in the trash.
Did you build your Hydraulic head? I like not having to use power/batteries. I also looked at the heads at Servocity.com but from the YouTube stuff I have seen with them they seem very noisy. I guess I am spoiled having directed so many cooking shows with Jimmy Jibs that are great tools and quiet. Just big and expensive to transport. I have to fly with my jib and this week it will be going to Barbados.
Brian
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Old April 15th, 2009, 11:15 PM   #8
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Pt 20

I also have the PT20 head and I do like it I bought it from a LA company for less than the others on the internet got it in a few days. Kessler would not budge on price plus they wanted me to buy from their CDN supplier it was a lot more. I have a US address in Niagara Falls and I go there and pick up and import it my self. Saves the US shippers from doing export papers etc. Plus the shipping is a lot cheaper and no BROKERAGE fees ( highway bandits) You are in Montreal why not get a address in Plattsburge there must be a UPS broker there where you can have it shipped You will save a few hundred doing that way.

I bought 2 telemetric head on ebay ( with cameras) I removed the control boards from them and made adaptors to make it work with my PT20 controller and they work real well. I wanted to purchase a controller from Turrent and their price was over 750 dollars just for the controller. I had built a unit using speed controllers from RC cars and I can use a remote RC unit to control the unit from 300 feet . What I like about the telemetric is that they are worm gear driven and when you stop them they do not budge. The turret if not balance properly will drive due to the unbalaced camera.


DaNc
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Old April 16th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #9
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Thanks for the info Dan.

I am just back from Barbados where I used my Kessler Crane and loved it. It transported well and took up no more space than a large set of golf clubs. I went with the little bescor head as a way of repositioning the camera but didn't use it on moves.
Your hydraulic head sounds awesome and maybe one day we will see it on the market? John's (advanta) jib looks great but just out of my budget for now anyway.
Regarding cooking shows, I have had folks approach me but I always pass. The ones I did were in the U.S.A. for PBS and had real budgets and very real chefs. I have made it a practice to avoid "My mom's got a great kitchen and my dad's got a handy cam...lets make a tv show"
So in closing I will stick with the setup I have for now, with the exception of adding the Kessler control assembly to my crane so I can see the monitor. One thing about working with LCD monitors is they can be hard to see at angles unlike the faithful(but heavy) CRT. The pan tilt function on this shoot is not critical and I will keep looking and check out the other options you have mentioned. Take it easy and perhaps one day I will send you an email and look you up when I am gonna be in the "Hammer"
Brian
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Old April 20th, 2009, 12:30 PM   #10
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Kessler

The Kessler I have a 12 footer fits in a golf carry all bag that I picked up at Liquidation world for about 40 dollars everything but the weights fit in the bag. I seen somewhere, where some one used the water bags used for camping for his weights. They can be had a CTC or where camping supplies are sold. Just fill to you get the right counter balance 1KG per Litre of water, and when finished just empty and fold up and pack with the crane.

Yea I hear you about the cooking shows everyone is a CHEF until you point a camera at them...

I use to spend some time in Montreal been awhile, maybe when I am there I send an email and see what up.

DaNc
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Old April 20th, 2009, 01:22 PM   #11
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This firm appear to be trading from a small suite in a larger building on an industrial estate. These are quite common, and offer cheapish rents to smaller companies who often share some communal facilities - although I can't confirm this one.

There is no trace of any Ltd company being registered in this name at the government Companies House registrar, and the whois on the domain name suggests it is a partnership - this isn't an indication of anything sinister here, and for them to have premises in a big site like this suggests they are genuine traders. However, a few things on their website seem a little odd - the mobile phone number is odd. If they have a permanent manned office, with an internet connection, then they would normally have a proper landline phone number. Mobile only is a little 'odd'. They also do not have a VAT number. Her Majesties Revenue and Customs do usually want this made public (although many BIG name firms don't bother).

They also seem to be active in different locations. South Mill Studios - that they mention doesn't seem to come up in a Google search, and they mention working in a theatre? What theatre?

This bit makes me wonder - after sale contact and 'fairly quickly??'

Purchasers will be contacted soon after purchase by a technician to establish specific mount requirements which are included in the purchase price
If you need advice on the suitability of this product please drop us an e-mail and we will respond fairly quickly.

before ordering, I'd want a serious chat with these people - it could be they are totally legit and just a couple of people trying to be a 'big' company. The fact they don't publish a real address worries me a bit - here in the UK traders are supposed to make their address visible in advertising if they are in business.
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Old April 21st, 2009, 11:04 AM   #12
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Good background research..

I think this company should be avoided and your research confirms that. I am on several groups and have actively looked for anyone using their heads and found no one. Hiding behind the " we can't divulge our customers names by law in the UK" seems like a lame excuse to me. If I sold a good product to someone I would ask them to post something or give them a price break for a testimonial. Sketchy is the word. I wish one of the principals would respond to the many posts out there about them.
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