LS300 Honeymoon over

Dave Rochelle · November 12th, 2015, 11:11 PM

Steve - would you be up for posting some pics of your LS300 rig? You've mentioned your customized setup (with the Gratical, rails, a handle and remote switch), and it's been hard for me to tell from the pics I've seen on retail & JVC sites just how these accessories might attach and work with the form factor of the cam.

I have become really accustomed to my AF100 rigged with Olof's wooden handle (with start/stop trigger) from Westside A/V - and actually wonder if I might be able to mount & repurpose that piece of kit (even if it required re-wiring the remote trigger).

Thanks in advance - and understood if you don't have the time!

Steve Rosen · November 13th, 2015, 09:31 AM

I will try later to post some pics... however every time I've attempted to post on this site I've failed, I don't know why, maybe the jpgs are too large, or maybe I'm just too old a dog...

Anyway, let me try to describe. It sounds confusing, but it's really simple. I'm a DIY guy, but this is all hacksaw, hand drill and file work, nothing fancy. Most of the critical parts are off-the-shelf from SmallRig, search Amazon.

I had a flat aluminum plate that fit the bottom of my old AF100, and it fits the LS300 as well - easy to get made at any machine shop and you can paint it or get it anodized. On the bottom/front of that plate I originally mounted two SmallRig rod blocks with hard nylon spacers (I don't try to keep it standard height, I prefer a lower center of gravity). Now I use a single rod block with base from my Viewfactor Pocket Camera cage that I don't use on that camera any more - but the blocks worked just as well.

I mount my tripod plate to the bottom of the rod blocks.That leaves an expanse of flat behind the rod block. I fix a SmallRig shoulder pad there (around $60, not bad either).

I use two 8" carbon fiber SmallRig rods with another rod block with an aluminum bracket I made (aluminum from a hardware store) to mount my handle, in my case an Aaton - Olaf's are similar, he makes/made good stuff. The Aaton switch isn't LANC so I mounted a cheap (from B&H) controller on the base plate on the control side of the camera. Placing is critical so it doesn't get in the way of the iris knob or other controls. This placement is great for tripod work too. Again, I only wish the zoom rocker would control the Prime Zoom.

Using a piece of aluminum angle (from a hardware store) I built a small bracket that attaches to the cold shoe on the top handle (using a shoe piece from an old monitor kit). Then mounted another rod block perpendicularly on the side. My EVF (Gratical or Z-Finder, also fitted with a rod block) slides in that block - and I have an adjustable side mounted EVF...

At first I was worried that the flimsy feeling top handle might not support the weight of an EVF, but it's actually stronger than it looks - and I'm careful to not torque it too much.

Okay, I look back at this and it is kind of confusing, I'll try to post some pics.

Noa Put · November 14th, 2015, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Powell

That enables the camera to react quickly to sudden lighting changes

Thx Lee, exactly what I wanted to know.

Noa Put · November 20th, 2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Nantz

Noa: At one point you mentioned about test driving an LS300. If that comes to pass, would you be so kind as to make some bokeh comparisons with your AX100?

For that any m4/3 camera should do to compare, because the sensor is larger and you can add faster primes the bokeh will be more visible on any m4/3 sensor camera. You can get a slight bokeh on the ax100 if you shoot subject upclose with the lens wide open or when zoomed in.

Noa Put · November 20th, 2015, 03:11 PM

My honeymoon just started and I did not have to send my bride back to her parents, she is still fully functional, even after the latest firmware install :) (*knocks on wood*)

I hardly have been able to do some real shooting but took it out today for a some shots inside a church and just did some skintones test, used my gh4 to compare.

I don't seem to have that weird colorshift in my viewfinder and lcd like some have reported, what I see looks close enough to reality, not as bright and colorful as on my gh4 though.
I also expected the worst when it came to viewfinder and lcd screen and while it's not at the same level as my gh4 I find both perfectly usable, checking focus for instance is very easy with the peaking and focus magnification.
Color looks nicer then what I can get out of my gh4, also skintones looked very natural when I was shooting in gamma: cinema and colormatrix itu790.
There is no additional cropping in 4K mode so my 12mm lens is much wider then on the gh4 which is a big plus.
Low light performance I"m not so sure about yet, it looks like it performs worse then my gh4 but have to do some more tests.
Very first impression is that this is a great camera, I do like all the control you have and also the possibility to choose how to switch from manual to auto if needed and what setting are camera controlled, these changes are also gradual, like the iris which doesn't jump when changed on my native lenses, stabilization works great, autofocus is not fast but seems responsive enough and digital zoom when cropping the sensor is a very useful feature.
I still have lots to explore but first impression is very positive, will take the camera out next week or so for a more serious testdrive and post the result here.

Steve Rosen · November 20th, 2015, 05:55 PM

I'm glad you're having pretty much the same opinion of the image that I've had.

For the past week I've been shooting exteriors (for a film on California's contrasting economic drivers - tourism and agriculture) with the LS300 and one of my Pocket Cameras - I have the EF 24-105 on the Pocket with a Speedbooster, and the Rokinon primes I just bought on the LS..

The BM cameras, for all their faults, are generally praised for the color they produce in both raw and ProRes. I've found that I can easily match ProRes images from the Pocket with the LS J-Log1. I import the LS clips, converting them to ProRes in FCPX, and literally can't tell which is which after grading.

If JVC will improve several hardware issues (especially quality control, the ability to zoom the VSM with an external controller, and the ability to export focusing aids through SDI) I'll buy another one. Oh, and 10 bit would be a nice addition too.

Noa Put · November 21st, 2015, 03:07 AM

50p in 4k would be great as well but I have stopped hoping for changes to camera's I have bought and just work with what I have, it only adds to the frustration if nothing happens. I just also found out I can assign focus to the zoomrocker making manual focusing with my fly by wire native MFT lenses a lot easier then doing it manually on the lens, that should be great being able to do a focuspull when shooting handheld without introducing any wobble.

Steve Rosen · November 21st, 2015, 09:35 AM

Even though I have an Olympus 12-40 (which I really like) and a Lumix 35-100, I'm currently using only manual lenses on the LS and taking advantage of the Prime Zoom feature.

With the Rokinon 24 I can cover most everything, but have their 35 and 85 as well - and the Nokton 17.5, Summicron 50 and Summarit 135 with them in the case (the Leica lenses, which have been modified by Duclos, match the Rokinons pretty well)... I keep the 35 or 85 Rokinon in my vest pocket.

Small point, but the lens mount on the LS300 is very positive, and the lenses click in place nicely and don't rotate at all when focusing with an FF, unlike BM cameras.

I find the primes are much easier to focus (for my old eyes) using the Gratical, especially handheld, because I can zoom in to focus like the old days (that's why I wish the zoom could be controlled with the wired remote I use for start/stop). And, I do so like having the smooth manual aperture.

My biggest regret is that my old manual S16 lenses don't work well on this camera - I'm still trying to figure out why (there's another thread I started about this) - anyway, the primes are a good, albeit slower and bulkier, compromise.

BTW - I do occasionally pop on the 12-40 and use AF, sometimes with face detection (neither of which I've ever used before). You mentioned that the AF was slow - I find it perfect, it comes into focus the way it would if I was focusing manually - and doesn't suddenly pop to focus on a passing foreground object.

Noa Put · November 21st, 2015, 11:38 AM

I tested the AF in a dimmer environment so it was expected that it would have a harder time locking on, will have to look at the general AF performance in a bit better light.
I personally find the prime zoom feature less useful, if I would shoot in 4K and recrop in post the effect would be the same and I would have the possibility during an interview to choose from different focal lengths giving the appearance that I"m shooting with 2 camera's (when editing in a 1080p project).

When I shoot in 1080p and use the prime zoom feature I gain a zoom but I loose any copping advantages in post which I would consider a bigger loss.

The fact that I can now focus with my mft lenses using the zoomrocker is a much bigger advantage, something I never could get right because of the nature of fly by wire lenses, by assigning it to the zoom rocker I can do very smooth focuspull's that are more accurate then doing it on the lens and since don't have to touch the lens it all stays much more stable as well.That feature alone is the highlight of the camera for me :)

Steve Rosen · November 21st, 2015, 03:51 PM

Well, as I'm sure you've figured out by now, I'm one of those old school shoot it in camera cinematographers who has always hated the expression "we'll fix it in post"...

Noa Put · November 22nd, 2015, 02:20 AM

Fixing in post means correcting mistakes for me, only here I feel you are taking away an advantage of being able to choose from multiple framing options if you shoot in 1080p.

Also, when I shoot in 4K the prime zoom doesn't work in my case and I did hear a JVC representative say in a video that should work as well but only about 10% zoom or so. Not sure why it doesn't work.

Steve Rosen · November 22nd, 2015, 11:10 AM

Really an ongoing argument for another forum, but I'll comment anyway - if you're shooting for yourself and unsure how you want the resultant image to be framed, fine, frame loose and fix it later...

But as a former DP, and a 30+ year documentary filmmaker, I take pride in delivering the shot as I envisioned it, and don't want some wannabe producer or editor "fixing" it in post.

Additionally, in my case, I shoot lots of footage - for just one of my current shows, a 40 minute doc, I've already shot over one TB of 1080 - and I haven't even started the dozen or more interviews yet. And my timelines are extremely complex, with hundreds of cuts and overlapping interrelated clips and split screens. If I was shooting 4K for all of this I would be overwhelmed, and my computer would be straining just to keep up.

And I have three concurrent similar projects... That's a lot of drive space - RAIDs and BUs...

4K (UHD actually) is pretty to look at, but with the 300 it's not 4.2.2, - and so far everything I deliver is 1080 anyway, so I'd rather keep my sanity.

The main reason I'm sold on the LS300 is that - for someone like me - while shooting in 1080 for broadcast, I can tweak my frame to provide the variety I need using the VSM. There are other cameras offering similar features now, but, as far as I know, none that offer the Prime Zoom. In this day and age of still lenses being enlisted for video use, the ability to use primes that don't change aperture or focus when zoomed is a great feature.

I realize that others see originating in 4K as a similar solution, it's just not one that works for everyone.

Forgot to add - when I shoot 4K, which I've only done twice, with the VSM set at 100%, using a lens that covers S35 like the EFs or Rokinons, I get about 12% zoom. With a native MFT lens at 80%, not.

Noa Put · November 22nd, 2015, 11:27 AM

Thx for clearing up the zoom issue I had in 4K, so with my mft lenses that's a nogo,

Quote:

if you're shooting for yourself and unsure how you want the resultant image to be framed, fine, frame loose and fix it later...

This is not what I meant, I mean knowing how to frame but gain additional framing in post, if you shoot in 1080p only you are loosing that advantage. You can simulate a 2 camera setup in that way without loss of image quality. This has nothing to do with "fixing in post" because you are not fixing any errors, you are creating more possibilities.

There is an advantage in having the prime zoom feature which I only would use when shooting handheld but when on a tripod in a controlled environment, I only see a disadvantage not shooting in 4K. But that ofcourse is how it works best with the kind of projects I deal with which are no documentaries and rarely are bigger then 150gb per project and I can understand it doesn't work for you.

Noa Put · November 22nd, 2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

as a former DP, and a 30+ year documentary filmmaker, I take pride in delivering the shot as I envisioned it, and don't want some wannabe producer or editor "fixing" it in post.

I just use 4K to my advantage in another way like you do but this doesn't mean I don't take pride in delivering a shot like I envisioned as well. Just saying as you make it sound now I don't.

Steve Rosen · November 22nd, 2015, 08:44 PM

I'm not criticizing or putting anyone down... I'm just expressing a basic philosophical difference between those brought up in film and - well - these days most everyone else. With film you had a to adhere to a strict discipline, there was - isn't - an option to change the framing in post... so you had to be on your game all the time.

I prefer to stick with that discipline because it makes the act of cinematography more challenging, and more interesting, and more fun... When the fun is gone, what's the point?

November 12th, 2015, 11:11 PM	#61
Dave Rochelle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 58	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Steve - would you be up for posting some pics of your LS300 rig? You've mentioned your customized setup (with the Gratical, rails, a handle and remote switch), and it's been hard for me to tell from the pics I've seen on retail & JVC sites just how these accessories might attach and work with the form factor of the cam. I have become really accustomed to my AF100 rigged with Olof's wooden handle (with start/stop trigger) from Westside A/V - and actually wonder if I might be able to mount & repurpose that piece of kit (even if it required re-wiring the remote trigger). Thanks in advance - and understood if you don't have the time!

November 13th, 2015, 09:31 AM	#62
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I will try later to post some pics... however every time I've attempted to post on this site I've failed, I don't know why, maybe the jpgs are too large, or maybe I'm just too old a dog... Anyway, let me try to describe. It sounds confusing, but it's really simple. I'm a DIY guy, but this is all hacksaw, hand drill and file work, nothing fancy. Most of the critical parts are off-the-shelf from SmallRig, search Amazon. I had a flat aluminum plate that fit the bottom of my old AF100, and it fits the LS300 as well - easy to get made at any machine shop and you can paint it or get it anodized. On the bottom/front of that plate I originally mounted two SmallRig rod blocks with hard nylon spacers (I don't try to keep it standard height, I prefer a lower center of gravity). Now I use a single rod block with base from my Viewfactor Pocket Camera cage that I don't use on that camera any more - but the blocks worked just as well. I mount my tripod plate to the bottom of the rod blocks.That leaves an expanse of flat behind the rod block. I fix a SmallRig shoulder pad there (around $60, not bad either). I use two 8" carbon fiber SmallRig rods with another rod block with an aluminum bracket I made (aluminum from a hardware store) to mount my handle, in my case an Aaton - Olaf's are similar, he makes/made good stuff. The Aaton switch isn't LANC so I mounted a cheap (from B&H) controller on the base plate on the control side of the camera. Placing is critical so it doesn't get in the way of the iris knob or other controls. This placement is great for tripod work too. Again, I only wish the zoom rocker would control the Prime Zoom. Using a piece of aluminum angle (from a hardware store) I built a small bracket that attaches to the cold shoe on the top handle (using a shoe piece from an old monitor kit). Then mounted another rod block perpendicularly on the side. My EVF (Gratical or Z-Finder, also fitted with a rod block) slides in that block - and I have an adjustable side mounted EVF... At first I was worried that the flimsy feeling top handle might not support the weight of an EVF, but it's actually stronger than it looks - and I'm careful to not torque it too much. Okay, I look back at this and it is kind of confusing, I'll try to post some pics.

November 20th, 2015, 03:11 PM	#65
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over My honeymoon just started and I did not have to send my bride back to her parents, she is still fully functional, even after the latest firmware install :) (knocks on wood) I hardly have been able to do some real shooting but took it out today for a some shots inside a church and just did some skintones test, used my gh4 to compare. I don't seem to have that weird colorshift in my viewfinder and lcd like some have reported, what I see looks close enough to reality, not as bright and colorful as on my gh4 though. I also expected the worst when it came to viewfinder and lcd screen and while it's not at the same level as my gh4 I find both perfectly usable, checking focus for instance is very easy with the peaking and focus magnification. Color looks nicer then what I can get out of my gh4, also skintones looked very natural when I was shooting in gamma: cinema and colormatrix itu790. There is no additional cropping in 4K mode so my 12mm lens is much wider then on the gh4 which is a big plus. Low light performance I"m not so sure about yet, it looks like it performs worse then my gh4 but have to do some more tests. Very first impression is that this is a great camera, I do like all the control you have and also the possibility to choose how to switch from manual to auto if needed and what setting are camera controlled, these changes are also gradual, like the iris which doesn't jump when changed on my native lenses, stabilization works great, autofocus is not fast but seems responsive enough and digital zoom when cropping the sensor is a very useful feature. I still have lots to explore but first impression is very positive, will take the camera out next week or so for a more serious testdrive and post the result here.

November 20th, 2015, 05:55 PM	#66
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I'm glad you're having pretty much the same opinion of the image that I've had. For the past week I've been shooting exteriors (for a film on California's contrasting economic drivers - tourism and agriculture) with the LS300 and one of my Pocket Cameras - I have the EF 24-105 on the Pocket with a Speedbooster, and the Rokinon primes I just bought on the LS.. The BM cameras, for all their faults, are generally praised for the color they produce in both raw and ProRes. I've found that I can easily match ProRes images from the Pocket with the LS J-Log1. I import the LS clips, converting them to ProRes in FCPX, and literally can't tell which is which after grading. If JVC will improve several hardware issues (especially quality control, the ability to zoom the VSM with an external controller, and the ability to export focusing aids through SDI) I'll buy another one. Oh, and 10 bit would be a nice addition too.

November 21st, 2015, 03:07 AM	#67
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over 50p in 4k would be great as well but I have stopped hoping for changes to camera's I have bought and just work with what I have, it only adds to the frustration if nothing happens. I just also found out I can assign focus to the zoomrocker making manual focusing with my fly by wire native MFT lenses a lot easier then doing it manually on the lens, that should be great being able to do a focuspull when shooting handheld without introducing any wobble.

November 21st, 2015, 09:35 AM	#68
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Even though I have an Olympus 12-40 (which I really like) and a Lumix 35-100, I'm currently using only manual lenses on the LS and taking advantage of the Prime Zoom feature. With the Rokinon 24 I can cover most everything, but have their 35 and 85 as well - and the Nokton 17.5, Summicron 50 and Summarit 135 with them in the case (the Leica lenses, which have been modified by Duclos, match the Rokinons pretty well)... I keep the 35 or 85 Rokinon in my vest pocket. Small point, but the lens mount on the LS300 is very positive, and the lenses click in place nicely and don't rotate at all when focusing with an FF, unlike BM cameras. I find the primes are much easier to focus (for my old eyes) using the Gratical, especially handheld, because I can zoom in to focus like the old days (that's why I wish the zoom could be controlled with the wired remote I use for start/stop). And, I do so like having the smooth manual aperture. My biggest regret is that my old manual S16 lenses don't work well on this camera - I'm still trying to figure out why (there's another thread I started about this) - anyway, the primes are a good, albeit slower and bulkier, compromise. BTW - I do occasionally pop on the 12-40 and use AF, sometimes with face detection (neither of which I've ever used before). You mentioned that the AF was slow - I find it perfect, it comes into focus the way it would if I was focusing manually - and doesn't suddenly pop to focus on a passing foreground object.

November 21st, 2015, 11:38 AM	#69
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I tested the AF in a dimmer environment so it was expected that it would have a harder time locking on, will have to look at the general AF performance in a bit better light. I personally find the prime zoom feature less useful, if I would shoot in 4K and recrop in post the effect would be the same and I would have the possibility during an interview to choose from different focal lengths giving the appearance that I"m shooting with 2 camera's (when editing in a 1080p project). When I shoot in 1080p and use the prime zoom feature I gain a zoom but I loose any copping advantages in post which I would consider a bigger loss. The fact that I can now focus with my mft lenses using the zoomrocker is a much bigger advantage, something I never could get right because of the nature of fly by wire lenses, by assigning it to the zoom rocker I can do very smooth focuspull's that are more accurate then doing it on the lens and since don't have to touch the lens it all stays much more stable as well.That feature alone is the highlight of the camera for me :)

November 21st, 2015, 03:51 PM	#70
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Well, as I'm sure you've figured out by now, I'm one of those old school shoot it in camera cinematographers who has always hated the expression "we'll fix it in post"...

November 22nd, 2015, 02:20 AM	#71
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Fixing in post means correcting mistakes for me, only here I feel you are taking away an advantage of being able to choose from multiple framing options if you shoot in 1080p. Also, when I shoot in 4K the prime zoom doesn't work in my case and I did hear a JVC representative say in a video that should work as well but only about 10% zoom or so. Not sure why it doesn't work.

November 22nd, 2015, 11:10 AM	#72
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over Really an ongoing argument for another forum, but I'll comment anyway - if you're shooting for yourself and unsure how you want the resultant image to be framed, fine, frame loose and fix it later... But as a former DP, and a 30+ year documentary filmmaker, I take pride in delivering the shot as I envisioned it, and don't want some wannabe producer or editor "fixing" it in post. Additionally, in my case, I shoot lots of footage - for just one of my current shows, a 40 minute doc, I've already shot over one TB of 1080 - and I haven't even started the dozen or more interviews yet. And my timelines are extremely complex, with hundreds of cuts and overlapping interrelated clips and split screens. If I was shooting 4K for all of this I would be overwhelmed, and my computer would be straining just to keep up. And I have three concurrent similar projects... That's a lot of drive space - RAIDs and BUs... 4K (UHD actually) is pretty to look at, but with the 300 it's not 4.2.2, - and so far everything I deliver is 1080 anyway, so I'd rather keep my sanity. The main reason I'm sold on the LS300 is that - for someone like me - while shooting in 1080 for broadcast, I can tweak my frame to provide the variety I need using the VSM. There are other cameras offering similar features now, but, as far as I know, none that offer the Prime Zoom. In this day and age of still lenses being enlisted for video use, the ability to use primes that don't change aperture or focus when zoomed is a great feature. I realize that others see originating in 4K as a similar solution, it's just not one that works for everyone. Forgot to add - when I shoot 4K, which I've only done twice, with the VSM set at 100%, using a lens that covers S35 like the EFs or Rokinons, I get about 12% zoom. With a native MFT lens at 80%, not. Last edited by Steve Rosen; November 22nd, 2015 at 11:18 AM. Reason: forgot

November 22nd, 2015, 08:44 PM	#75
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Re: LS300 Honeymoon over I'm not criticizing or putting anyone down... I'm just expressing a basic philosophical difference between those brought up in film and - well - these days most everyone else. With film you had a to adhere to a strict discipline, there was - isn't - an option to change the framing in post... so you had to be on your game all the time. I prefer to stick with that discipline because it makes the act of cinematography more challenging, and more interesting, and more fun... When the fun is gone, what's the point?